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  • Kim Meninger

Whose Expectations Are You Prioritizing?

Updated: May 12, 2023

Whose Expectations Are You Prioritizing? - Danielle Cobo

In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we look at how pressure to live up to others’ expectations can undermine our confidence. My guest, Danielle Cobo, shares insights and exercises to help clarify your purpose, legacy and impact so that you can live your life in alignment with your own values. We also talk about how to prioritize what we value most when we’re trying to meet so many conflicting demands.

About Danielle Cobo:

Danielle Cobo is an award-winning Career, Leadership, and Sales Performance Coach. Danielle has gone from storing clothes in trash bags to leading a team for a Fortune 500 company. She’s spent 15 years in medical sales, earning four consecutive awards for top performance as an individual contributor, and led a historically poorest performing sales team to #1 in the nation within two years.

At two years young, her mother kidnapped her; she met her dad at 15 and then lost her mother to suicide. Through these challenges, she has learned how to transform self-doubt into resilience, drive, motivation & confidence.

She has taught thousands of professionals to accelerate their careers, increase sales performance, and create a connected company culture through her keynote speaking, corporate workshops, and one-on-one coaching.

Danielle leads the Training Pillar of the Military Spouse Economic Empowerment Zone Committee, Career Transition Advisor for the Dallas Professional Women. Tampa Chamber of Commerce Workforce Development Committee, Women of Influence Committee, Military Advisor Committee, and member of the Working Women of Tampa Bay.

Danielle is the host of “Dream Job with Danielle Cobo Podcast,” a devoted military spouse and mother to 4-year-old twin boys.


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Kim Meninger Welcome, Danielle. I’m really excited to have this conversation. And I do want to let everybody know that you and I just wrapped up a conversation for your podcast, which I will share with the community when it becomes available as well. So I feel like this is a continuation of a conversation we just started. But I’m grateful to have a chance to bring this to the audience. And I’d love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.

Danielle Cobo Well, I’m very excited to be here. And we had an incredible conversation on my podcast, I’m excited to also join yours and continue the conversation. So I have, I started my career in medical sales, I actually… Well, I would say, I started my career when I was seven, actually. I was an entrepreneur at heart. When I was seven years old, I would go out, pick mistletoe, bundle it all together and sell it outside the grocery store so that I could, so I could earn money to buy Christmas presents for my family. So I would say that I always had that sales and entrepreneurial spirit at heart at an early age. And a lot of that was driven from this desire to be independent. And so when I graduated college, I started my career in medical sales, where I spent 15 years in medical sales among the most recent seven years where I was leading a team for a fortune 500 company, before launching my coaching business where I do career coaching, and helping women predominantly. I do work with some men as well, but helping women predominantly and accelerating their career, whether it’s starting, whether it’s getting a new job, or getting promoted or launching a business.

Kim Meninger So I love that you talk about having that entrepreneurial spirit, even at such a young age. And I know, well, at least when I think about being able to put yourself out there in a sales capacity there is a certain amount of confidence or self-trust that’s required in order to do that. What would you say your relationship to confidence is? Would you consider yourself a confident person? How does that journey look for you?

Danielle Cobo I would say that journey has evolved over the years. There’s been times where I’ve had a high level of confidence. And then there’s times where I’ve had a lot of self-doubt. And it’s interesting because growing up, I was not confident. In fact, I was teased a lot growing up in my earlier years. It wasn’t until I hit junior high where I switched from having these coke bottle glasses to having contacts, where all of a sudden, people started to pay attention to me. And so that’s when I kind of started to learn finding my own self. But the journey to confidence is continuous. It’s not that I’ve all of a sudden had confidence and I’m going to be that way forever. I think that with any new endeavor, and the more that I lean into the unknown, and stepping across that comfort zone, there’s times where I go through the impostor syndrome, there’s times where I go through that self-doubt. And it really takes me pushing through that. But what I’ve found to be the most beneficial in gaining confidence is through self-development, when I decide that I matter, and when I decide that I’m worthy in investing in myself, in any capacity within my career, or any capacity within my life, that’s when I found that I’ve actually come out stronger and more confident.

Kim Meninger Hmm, I really like that perspective a lot. Because I do think that, as women in particular, we’ve been taught to put everybody’s needs ahead of our own. We often lose ourselves in our work and in our families. And when we can center ourselves in our own story, not because we think we’re more important than anyone else but because we give ourselves at least the same respect and attention as we would give to anybody else, it does influence how we show up and it allows us to be more impactful with those around us as well. It’s not a selfish act. It’s actually something that benefits everybody.

Danielle Cobo Yeah, I mean, if I want to show up as the best version of myself, then it’s got to start with filling my cup up first. It’s, it goes back to the, if you’re on an airplane, they always say before you can put the oxygen mask even on your kids, you’ve got to put it on yourself. And that was something that I learned over time, especially when I was overcoming postpartum depression. I really learned that in order to show up for my kids and to be a mom and to be a wife and to show up at work, it started with taking care of myself first. So really I start my morning with the first hour is me time. I go for a walk, I listen to a podcast and get on my peloton, whatever it is, but that’s kind of my me time to start the day.

Kim Meninger So you had shared with me when we first met a while back about your husband being in the armed services, right? You have two twin, young twins, four years old, I believe. And so I would imagine you don’t have a lot of me time and, and also, that’s going to present interesting logistical challenges in your life as well. How have you navigated that part of your life and anything you’ve learned that you think would be helpful to share with others who are feeling just completely overwhelmed by their own lives at this point?

Danielle Cobo And this is, this is so on spot with a recent conversation that I had with my husband. And one thing that I have learned that a lot of women kind of think that in order for things to get done, I’ve got to do it. And what I found is when my husband returned back, because he was deployed for a year. So while he was gone for a year, I was traveling every week across five states. My twins, at the time, were a year and a half years old, I had an amazing support system. So what I found when I was overcoming postpartum was to ask for help, and ask for support. And what I learned to that, too, is, if we don’t ask for help, we are sometimes stripping somebody of the opportunity to experience joy and fulfillment. Because a lot of times, if you look at studies around volunteer work, a lot of times people have a higher sense of happiness, gratitude fulfillment, when they volunteer, and so overcoming that, that’s one of the things that I learned. And when it comes to a most recent conversation that I had is, I had looked at my husband and I said, Hey, I’m at a point right now, where I’m, I’m overwhelmed. I feel as though I’m doing a lot, I’m feeling a little bit of resentment because I think that I’m doing a lot around the house. Now that may be relative reality or perception. I always say the story we tell ourselves in our head. My husband and I use that language all the time. And I said, I would love for us to kind of sit down and look at kind of where the roles and responsibilities are in the household. Because it’s evolved. When he got back from deployment, he was reintegrating and helping out with some things, We recently transitioned from having a nanny to them going to a summer camp. And so one of the things we did is we wrote down a list of all the things that are done at the house, I wouldn’t say that this was an enjoyable experience for him. But we wrote down a list of all the things that need to be done around the house, you know, laundry, yard work, unloading the dishwasher, whatever it is. And I found that if I lead with him first, I got a little bit more of the buy-in. So I said, Hey, would you mind? Why don’t you pick something on the list, and then I’ll pick something on the list. And then you pick something on the list. And just by asking for help. You know, a lot of times people don’t always know, they’ll say, Well, let me know, if you need help. Let me know how I can help you. They don’t always know what that is. And sometimes you need to be a little bit more directive on what’s going to best support you in any capacity within your life.

Kim Meninger I love that process so much. And I think that sometimes we, I love also the language of the stories we tell ourselves, right? We make up these interpretations of what other people are thinking, we have this expectation that our partners or other people around us, even our managers, in some cases, can read our minds. We let that resentment brew. And then we get to a point where the frustration boils over. And it’s not good for any relationship, whether that’s a personal relationship or a work relationship. And I think it’s such a great example of what you talked about asking for help. Because if we practice asking for help, in certain situations, then we can become more confident asking for help in other situations as well. And so certainly, asking for help from our partners isn’t always the easiest conversation as he says that the most enjoyable conversation easier either. But it can sometimes feel more comfortable than let’s say, going to my boss and saying, You know what, there, there’s a lot on my plate right now. And I could really use your help in prioritizing it or, you know, I really, I can do these three things, but I’m not going to be able to do this fourth one right away. And so I see it oftentimes as building muscles that allow us to have more difficult conversations in other areas of our lives.

Danielle Cobo Absolutely. And it’s interesting that I find that sometimes the conversations with my husband are a little bit harder just because… It’s the story, the you know, it goes back to the stories. An example that I just had the other day too is my, I’d asked my husband, I said hey, can you watch the kiddos tonight? I’m, I’m picking up like a later meeting this evening and he’s like, Why do you keep having these meetings at night? And I said, What were you coming at me, you are golfing one night a week, you’re, he’s a Blackhawk pilot. He’s flying one night a week. He’s got drill weekend, and he is gone a lot. And I said, you know, I’m really triggered by you saying that. I said, the story that I’m telling myself is that it’s okay for you to have these nice evening things. But when I asked, the story I’m telling myself is that you are not supporting me in my career and what I want to do, or going out with my girlfriends. And he says, Well, that’s furthest from the truth. I was just asking you why do these people keep planning things at night versus during the business hours? And I was like, oh, it’s because they’re on the West Coast. It just goes to show you that sometimes, what we tell ourselves is completely opposite than the other. And then that opened up the conversation where I said, Hey, next time you ask that question, it’s a pretty trigger word for me like it’s a trigger situation. So why don’t you just ask, like, Hey, why did they keep setting up time at night versus during business hours? And maybe I don’t know, maybe that conversation would go a little differently.

Kim Meninger I love that because you created space to better understand each other in the process. Imagine had you not addressed that with him, what you would continue to tell yourself and how it would leak out in other inconvenient ways?

Danielle Cobo It would build resentment. I mean, there’s definitely been some times in our marriage where we have built resentment. And that can apply whether it’s in your relationship, or it can also apply in at work when my husband was deployed. There are many times where I noticed that I wasn’t receiving the opportunity to get involved in as many special projects as I used to be. So a lot of times, management would reach out to me for a lot of things, but just extras projects, because I loved it. And I noticed that it wasn’t coming to me as much when he was deployed. And it wasn’t until I advocated and said and I spoke up, I said, Hey, to my VP. I said, I’m noticing I’m not getting as many special projects, is there something that I can be doing differently or support with? And he responds back, he goes, Well, I thought you’d be too busy. And I said, Okay, I appreciate your, I appreciate that you’re looking out for my best interest. I also am fully capable of saying yes or no, you know, I know my time better than anybody. And I don’t want the assumptions of other people to dictate what I can or can’t do or take on or can’t take on, I have the ability to say no. And I said, it’s interesting that you say that, because these special projects, my kids go to bed at 7:30 every night. There’s only so much Netflix I can watch. Please give me these special projects. I am getting bored at home. So.

Kim Meninger I love that you said that because that reminds me of an article that I just read. I think it was in the Harvard Business Review about benevolent sexism, and how we know what overt sexism looks like. But oftentimes, people do make those assumptions of, well, she has a baby, she probably doesn’t want more challenge or she doesn’t she’s probably not interested in traveling right now. So we’ll give this to somebody else. But to your point, that decision should be ours to make. It’s not something that we want other people to decide on our behalf. And so the fact that you addressed it head on, once again, allowed for space to have that conversation, because otherwise he probably would have gone on to continue to think he was doing a great service by denying you a choice.

Danielle Cobo And I get that. I get that as I’m sure a lot of women do. I definitely get that assumption a lot where when I was pregnant with my twins, the immediate question was, are you going to quit your job? Or when people found out that he was deploying. Are you going to quit your job? And my response to them was, I’m going to take it day-by-day. If there’s a point where I feel like that’s not sustainable or it’s not in the best interest for my family, then I can decide then. But I’m not going to quit on myself without giving myself the chance to at least try. And it’s up to me to decide. But it… yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of times that people put assumptions just because they think they can’t do it doesn’t mean that that individual can or cannot. And I know that there was a time when I was interviewing for a position and somebody had asked me, this gentleman had asked me how are you going to do this job with kids? And also how is your husband deployable? And how are you going to do this job if he deploys? Yeah, yeah, all questions you’re not supposed to ask in, you know, an interview. Definitely not. And it’s interesting because a year later was the year that my husband got deployed. And I did it.

Kim Meninger So you have since made a transition, you’re now doing career coaching. What are you seeing out there? What are some of the common themes that you’re seeing right now in the career coaching world? Like, what are people asking you for? What are they struggling with?

Danielle Cobo What I’m seeing right now is a lot of women are kind of feeling like they’re stuck, or there’s a loss of sense of purpose. There’s just something missing in their life, and they can’t necessarily pinpoint what it is. And it’s a lot through this discovery of really understanding, getting back to what you said, core values, what ignites their passion, what we’re kind of at this different phase in our life, because a lot of women that I work with, you know, they’re becoming parents or they’ve been parents, and they’re kind of looking at this next phase in their career in life as to, instead of forging their way and creating their career, it’s more or less, how can I leave a legacy, and they’ve become more of an expert in their field. And so how can you take that expertise and mentor the up-and-coming and emerging leaders. And so that’s where I’m seeing a lot of, and I’m seeing a lot of women that are kind of going, I don’t know if I want to be in corporate anymore, and they’re starting businesses, and that is something that I’m seeing more and more. So it’s either they’re in corporate, and they’ve got this awesome side hustle that they’re doing, or they’re in corporate, and they want to do motivational speaking on the side, or they’re just going, I’m gonna, I’m gonna dive into this entrepreneurial type zone, and they’re gonna start their business.

Kim Meninger It’s so interesting because I think that was obviously happening before the pandemic but certainly seems to be a much bigger trend nowadays. And I think that, whether it’s directly a result of that, or just in general, we have, many of us been motivated by different things. And so many, many times, it may have felt like the practical thing was to focus on the job that has the highest pay, or that has the greatest benefits, or the greatest flexibility, whatever the case may be. And now we find ourselves in a position where we start to say, there must be something more, right, there’s got to be something more than this. And when you work with people who are in that space of I don’t know, necessarily what I want, but I know it’s not where I am today. What are the things that they could be thinking about? Like, what’s, what’s step one, if someone’s listening and thinking to themselves, gosh, that’s me they’re talking about right now.

Danielle Cobo And I think it all since we’re all kind of searching for that in one way, shape, or form, whether we have the self-awareness to recognize it at that point, but I always kind of get back to that purpose, legacy and impact. And so when it comes to purpose, taking the step and taking a step back, and if it’s as simple as taking a piece of paper and a pen, and on one side of the piece of paper, write down all the things that bring you joy, what at work in your personal life, what fires you up, what ignites your passion? And then on the right side, write down some of the things that you don’t enjoy. And is that something maybe that you can outsource? Is it something that maybe there’s a different role within the organization where you would steer away from that. There’s a lot of people that like to be leaders, but they don’t necessarily like to lead people. And so maybe there’s just a shift and a pivot in there. And so I look at, okay, so what’s your passion? What is, what ignites your soul? And what fills up your cup? And then the next thing is, I look at impact. And so one of the things that, one of the steps I encourage my clients to do is write a simple question on Facebook or LinkedIn, whatever your platform is, and say, if there was one word you could use to describe me, what would it be? Or if I’ve impacted your life in any way, please share how here. And we take all those words and we make a word cloud out of it, put them on their vision board. It keeps a reminder and sense of sometimes if you are experiencing self-doubt, you read those words and it reminds you sometimes the impact that you make in other people’s lives, and that will build your confidence. And then we look at okay, well, what’s your passion, your purpose? What’s the impact that you make on other people’s lives? And what’s the legacy that you want to leave? And can we combine that into maybe starting a business or maybe getting into a new role or getting promoted whatever that is?

Kim Meninger That’s such a powerful exercise. I think that’s something, again, that you, you and I were talking about in our previous conversation, this idea that we get so busy You don’t necessarily think at a deeper level, and we’re just trying to get through the day. Most of the time, we are not necessarily in touch with those deeper aspects of ourselves, like what brings us joy. Or what, what do we want our legacy to be? And so sometimes people get a little bit nervous when I start talking about some of these things because it feels really time-consuming. It feels like oh, my gosh, you’re asking me to, to make space where I barely have enough space to do the basics right now. What would you say about time?

Danielle Cobo About time? And the sense of taking the time for that?

Kim Meninger Yeah, like I guess I’m wondering, if someone were to present you with that objection of I don’t have time for this. How would you respond to that? How do you think about how much time is actually needed for this? Or how to create time given everything else that we have going on in our lives?

Danielle Cobo I think that exercise, it’s not a matter of doing it all at once, but sometimes building on it. So maybe I, some of my clients depending I look at their schedule, and I say, Okay, can you commit to one day a month for personal development? Can you commit to one hour a day? Can you commit to one hour a week, whatever it is, put that time on your schedule, and do it. And if you’re at a point where you’re feeling overwhelmed, and that is the time more than ever, that it’s a revisiting your purpose. And then looking at everything that you do that day. does it align with your core values? Or does it align with your purpose? And I say, look at your schedule. I can look at your schedule, and I can tell you what the priorities are in your life. Now, does that reflect what they really are? Do you have time, for example, when I look at my schedule, it’s like, okay, well, I have time for work, I have time blocked on my schedule, for my personal development, I have time blocked out for family and my faith. But if I look at your schedule, and all I see is work, then there’s an opportunity to revisit and get back to your purpose and your core values and, and kind of look at maybe that’s the sense of what’s creating the overwhelm because you’re just focused on so much on one thing that you’re missing the other buckets that fill up your entire cup.

Kim Meninger Yeah, and I think that can be a scary thing, too. Because once you see that, you can’t unsee it. Once you know that you’re living out of alignment with what you want your priorities and your values to be, it sort of creates a, like a tension that needs to be addressed. So I think that’s part of the reason why people say, I’ll worry about that later. I’m not going to do that now. But I like the way you talk about it as being incremental because that’s far more realistic and far more sustainable than if we said, I’m going to take a week off and get to know myself. It’s not going to happen. And we’re going to set ourselves up for failure. So really, to try to do it incrementally and to use the time in between to let it marinate a little bit, let it you know, let it soak in, it’s going to influence the way you see and experience what’s going on around you. And then you can start to make some, some choices.

Danielle Cobo Yeah, I remember I was working with somebody last week, and they kept talking about their core values, strong work, or family, family. That was everything that he talked about was everything was related to family, however, in the next conversation we were having, he was talking about, okay, well, he goes to work early in the morning, you know, gets there by 6 am gets home really late, because he’s so focused on supporting his team. And I said, Okay, from what I’m hearing, you say family’s important to you. Okay, and he’s got young kids three, I said, so how many hours a day are you spending with your kids, and it was less than an hour. So is that aligned with what’s important to you? And I understand that you want to be supportive of your team. But sometimes being supportive of your team is empowering them with the opportunity to take lead on separate things. Sometimes we have this negative connotation of delegation, and delegating tasks. But in all reality, what we’re doing is you’re giving other people the opportunity to learn new skills to empower them. And sometimes by delegating then releases some of the stress and overwhelm feeling on us, of us thinking that we’ve got to do everything.

Kim Meninger Yeah. And that goes back to the asking for help piece too, right? Because it’s not just about asking for help of our own managers, but also being willing to delegate to other people around us as well, not because we’re burdening them with our stuff, right, which I think a lot of people worry about is Oh, but they’re busy too. Sure everybody’s busy, but what you are not motivated to do can become an opportunity to somebody else who wants to learn that. And so to also think about it from that perspective. So I want to just ask you another question about the women that are saying, I don’t know that I want to stay in corporate. This is something I’m hearing a lot from women about too, not necessarily as generally as that, but a lot of people saying, I’m not necessarily sure I want to get to the top of a corporation. And that could be for any number of reasons. But the general themes that I hear nowadays are I look up and I don’t like what I see. Right? Whether it’s the lifestyle, whether it’s the egos, the politics, I just don’t, these aren’t people I want to spend my time with. I don’t want to give up what I feel like I need to give up in order to take on that level of responsibility. Do you see that too? Is that part of what you think is driving people to start their own businesses?

Danielle Cobo Yeah, I think that. So one of the things in kind of going into that impostor syndrome, too, is, is there’s times where you want to avoid comparison to your other to others. And there’s times that you want to embrace comparison. And I say it in the sense of like you’re hearing, or like you’re hearing from other women, you look at some of these, these people that have climbed the corporate ladder, and yes, are they in these high-level executive positions? Yes. However, do you agree with their lifestyle? So I embrace comparison, in the sense of I know that I am, I have the grit, I have the determination, I have the communication, all these core competencies, I know that I can succeed into that role, and be successful at it, however. So that’s when you embrace comparison. But I avoid comparison, in the sense of doesn’t mean necessarily, I want to do that, because I don’t want to be on the road anymore. Earning Diamond Delta. It’s so funny when I earned Diamond Delta, I was proud to put that badge in my suitcase. And it’s, all it meant was that I spent more time in a hotel room than I did at home. Granted, it was before kids. But yeah, I think that sometimes people climbing the corporate ladder is not as appealing to people if they feel like it’s in the sacrificing of everything else in their life.

Kim Meninger I’m really glad you brought up the comparison piece because I think this is part of what becomes the anxiety-provoking part of these decisions is there’s a part of us that wants to honor what we know to be true for ourselves that that’s not what I want. That’s not the lifestyle I want. It’s not aligned with my values in whatever way and then the, the conflict with the what that’s what’s expected of me, right? My peer group is heading in that direction. I don’t want to fall behind. I don’t want to look like I have stagnated or have become complacent when other people are continuing to grow ahead of me. What will people think? And then all of that chatter shows up. And so I can’t, you know, I can either this is what it feels like, right, I can either suck it up and take on all that that entails, continue to grow my career, or I can stay where I am, and live with all the guilt and shame that comes with feeling like I’ve let other women down. I’ve let my cohort down. I’m not meeting expectations. And so I think where the struggle comes from is how do I find peace with that decision?

Danielle Cobo So I think the biggest question in asking is, are you living your life based on the expectations of others? Are you living your life by the expectations of yourself? If you’re, if you are doing things to please other people, or if you’re doing things because that’s what you think, the expectation or where you should be going, then you’re losing sight of living your life by who you want to be. And so sometimes when we’re looking at people, we’re saying, well, that’s what’s expected of me, then it’s sometimes that self-doubt is actually stemmed more from the fear of judgment.

Kim Meninger Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I do think that it’s hard to see this in the moment because this is what feels most relevant to us right now. But I find it helpful sometimes to imagine fast forwarding, and really thinking about once you’re at the end of your career, once your career is behind you. What will you have regretted more? What will you have wished you had spent more time doing or what will you have wished you had prioritized? And then try to work from the perspective of what my future self will value. Again, that’s not an easy thing to do. But eventually, those voices that you hear today, which sounds so loud, they’re gonna disappear, you’re not gonna be there anymore, but you’re the only person who’s gonna still be there at the end of your career. So how do you, how do you turn up the volume on that voice and turn down the volume on the others?

Danielle Cobo So we talked a little bit about discovering your passion, and then getting into that impact and purpose. And then it’s the legacy piece. So one of the exercises that I do with some people, as I say, it’s and it’s uncomfortable, right? Anytime you tell somebody to sit down and write down what they’re passionate about, that’s uncomfortable because they’re taking time for themselves, then you tell them to post a question on social media, they’re really getting uncomfortable here, they’re being vulnerable. And then this is just kind of a, sometimes an awkward exercise. But it’s very impactful as I look at the legacy in the sense of when you pass. What do you want people to say about you? Are they going to say, well, they worked really hard, they climb the corporate ladder, good for them? No. And so one of the things that I did for myself as well, as I do with some of my clients, as I say, I want you to write an obituary, from your co-workers’ perspective. And then also from your friends and family’s perspective. So when you imagine these two individuals or three people standing up, and they’re celebrating your life, what do you want your legacy to be? And that’s how you live your life. Because if you want to be known for climbing the corporate ladder and being very successful, but you also know that maybe that doesn’t align with your core values, then then, then that’s what you can do. But you’re always going to it’s not aligning with that legacy.

Kim Meninger Exactly. I think that’s such a powerful exercise too. Because when we don’t have those anchors, whatever they might be, it’s so much easier to give into the peer pressure around us, right? If we don’t, if we don’t have that framework of our own, or whatever you want to call it to bump up against and say, let’s say we’re being given the choice, do I get promoted? Do I get on this fast track to this higher level? Or do I make a lateral move? Or do I start down to do something different, then it’s the voices of the people that are in that situation are going to be disproportionately loud. But if we can always come back to that, Well, let me see what I said, in a neutral moment that I really wanted. What, what did I tell myself I wanted to prioritize, and is this decision that I’m making lining up with that, it kind of holds us accountable to for staying true to who we want to be.

Danielle Cobo I’m glad you brought up that, that lateral move. Because for so long, historically, for so long, we’ve been taught, climb the corporate ladder, climb the corporate ladder. And in reality, you can have a, you can develop and build on your career with lateral moves. Because the reason is, is you have exposure to a whole different department division role within our organization, which is going to strengthen your skills. So success in your career does not always look up, success in your career can sometimes look lateral.

Kim Meninger That’s a very good point. I’m glad that you mentioned that too. Because when you know what you want out of your career, then it’s an easier decision to make too. Because if what I want is, I want to be challenged. Maybe I’ve outgrown the role that I’m in. But it doesn’t mean I have to move to the C suite in order to continue to be challenged. I can look in other… grow a different skill set, transition to another part of the business. Yeah. Yeah, this is great, Danielle, I think we’ve given people a lot of things to think about, especially in the context of the exercises that you shared. Any final thoughts that you want to share with everybody?

Danielle Cobo I would say that when it comes to self-doubt, if you’re ever experiencing self-doubt, know that you’re not alone. We all experience at one point in our lives or multiple times within our lives. And so sometimes we compare ourselves to people, especially if they’re in certain roles, or they’re starting their business, and we’re going, Gosh, I wish I can do that. And sometimes what you see on social media is them struggling for five years that they finally achieved their success, but you didn’t see behind closed doors. Sometimes the doubt the comparison, the tears, all of that stuff. And so know that if you experience of doubt, you’re not alone, we often do. It’s just a matter of sharing that you are knowing that we’re a lot more alike than we are different.

Kim Meninger That’s such a great way for us to wrap up and I so appreciate that Danielle, and I’m going to share your contact information, links to your social media, your website in the show notes for anybody who may be interested in following up with you. And thank you again for the great conversation.

Danielle Cobo Thank you.

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