In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about raising confident communicators. Are you raising your kids or influencing the younger humans in your lives to be confident communicators? For better or worse, technology has changed the way we communicate. As younger generations continue to enter the workforce, it’s important that they be prepared to confidently and effectively communicate with others. My guest this week is Tim Newman, an educator who has specialized in sport marketing, public relations, leadership, and social media. Here Tim and I talk about common communication challenges in the workplace. We then focus our attention on preparing future generations to communicate by providing them with the appropriate resources and opportunities to build their skills.
About My Guest
Dr. Tim Newman is an accomplished educator and sport professional with nearly three decades of experience in the field of sport management and athletic training. Specializing in the areas of sport marketing, public relations, leadership, and social media, he has taught in the United States and across the globe including Botswana, Malaysia and Thailand. He has always been a forward thinker and problem solver which led to him write Social Media in Sport Marketing, which was published over 10 years ago as one of the first books on the subject. Those qualities were also the impetus for him teaching and developing online courses for over twenty years and laid the foundation for his newest project, the Formula For Public Speaking which is a step-by-step program to help anyone who wants to improve their public speaking skills.
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Connect with Tim:
Website: https://timnewmanspeaks.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timnewman
X: http://x.com/TimNATC
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimNewmanSpeakingWithConfidence
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timnewmanspeaks
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Tim. It is a pleasure to have you here today and I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself first.
Tim Newman
First, Kim, thank you for inviting me to join you and share information. You know, with the imposter syndrome files community, it's great what you're doing. And you know, as I've listened to you know, some of your episodes they you know you're providing great value to, to the rest of your community so I hope to hope they appreciate that. A little bit about me. I'm a kind of a 'what you see is what you get,' person who has imposter syndrome of time, just like everybody else. I'm a recovering college professor. My last semester was, was just this past fall, and now I'm helping people become, you know, more confident and better communicators. You know, our, our young professionals today have such trouble getting over their communication fears, and I think a lot of that stems from the imposter syndrome and worried about what everybody else is thinking about them and what they're thinking about their thoughts, and you know what they're wearing today and what they're going to wear next week, and all these other things that, you know, from at least from my perspective, I think we put on ourselves, and need to just kind of let that go and lean into who we are and go out and be successful.
Kim Meninger
Yes, I couldn't agree more. And before we go down that path, in more detail, I wanted to ask you, what were you teaching, and is it related to, to communication or…?
Tim Newman
Well, it’s, it's, that's, that's a really good question. You know, my, my background is in sport marketing and public relations, and you know, part of what I've found, you know, as, as I've grown as a professional, is, if we can commute, what I what I do, is not rocket science. It's is basically relationships. If you can build relationships and no know your product and know the services that that you're trying to sell, you're going to be fine. It's not rocket science. But part of the problem is, is building those relationships. And as I've gone through my career from a from the teaching perspective, what I found was that I had to, to get better at teaching these soft skills, because they're not taught, you know, especially when you get to the college level, they haven't been taught in public school or private school or home, wherever they wherever they matriculated from. So they come to us in, in college or university setting, and they don't know how to talk, they don't know how to present, they don't know how to actually put together a coherent presentation of information to sell or whatever the topic is. And so as again, as my career progressed, I found myself focusing more on teaching those types of skills. And then when COVID hit, and we went all online and then came back, it was like, oh my goodness, what happened? They've, what little I thought that they had before, they don't even have that anymore. So it was almost like starting from scratch and teach and helping them understand the importance of communication. Understand the importance of some of the things that we have to do to be effective in confident communicators.
Kim Meninger
You’re so right about having to teach that because I think you know certain, I would say certain majors or certain areas of study, perhaps have communication a little bit more woven into it. But in general, we get so laser-focused on whatever the subject is that we're studying, right, and we miss out on these fundamentals.
Tim Newman
Yeah, and it's, it's funny, as I've done a little bit more research and in with my podcast and talking to other podcasters like yourself, there's a ton of people out there, especially in the STEM field, that this really does affect because the, the whole idea of, of science and technology and engineering, they are, they are so data driven, and so, you know, finite, that they really have trouble in communicating to people outside of those fields, right? And again, you have to, you have to take those concepts and be able to sell it outside of those fields to, to other people. And it's, it's really, they're dealing with some of the same things that everybody else deals with on just a different level. And it, it goes across the board. You're absolutely right
Kim Meninger
You’re absolutely right too about, you know, I think about communication, it has so many different flavors to it, for lack of a better term, right? Talking about presenting content to somebody, and that feels a little bit more formal. And maybe, if you are in a data-driven field, you have to have enough data to substantiate your argument, but you also want to tell a story too, right? Otherwise, you're going to lose your audience, especially those that aren't as connected. And so there, and then you've got your less formal form of communication, right? And you mentioned building relationships, which is such an important part of any job. And I think nowadays, especially if you don't work in the same office with people, or we're relying on technology so much, it's like that. It's like an art that we've lost.
Tim Newman
Exactly and let me, and I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, when I talk about communication and helping people become better communicators, I'm looking at it from a holistic perspective. It could be a team meeting, it could be an interview, it could be a networking session. It could be, you know, the number of people that have such anxiety of going to a grocery store and talking to people, or all these other different types of communication. You don't have to be on stage, you don't have to be giving a presentation. It could be any types of things. And I think some of the same concepts apply to talking about something in a team meeting, to being an interview or networking event, or all these other different types of environments that we that we have to, that we have to communicate in across life, both personally and professionally. We struggle, and we have to find ways to be able to overcome that.
Kim Meninger
Yeah and it's funny because the two areas that I see as most challenging are certainly the more formal presentations because of the anxiety and the pressure that comes with that. But small talk, [yes,] is up there too, right? The one you think is kind of, I mean, and certainly for certain personality types of people who are more comfortable socially, it feels obvious. But for a lot of people, small talk, like you said, going to the grocery store or just, you know, being in an elevator with somebody that can be incredibly daunting.
Tim Newman
Yes, yes. And, you know, I laugh because I'm from. I grew up in Maryland, spent a lot my younger years in types of things when I went to get my doctorate down south, and people down south are so friendly, they really are. And I would have to call my wife and say, Look, I'm, I'm inside. I'm getting ready to go, get in the car. Please talk to me on the phone, because if somebody stops and talks to me, we're going to be there talking for three hours. And I don't have three hours to talk to somebody, you know, and so that's so we're talking about the mid-90s at that point, and we're like, my Oh, my gosh. We have to be we have to learn how to do that. And this is, you know, for me, you know, 30 years ago, I wasn't in the mode of teaching communication or in the mode of relationship building those types of things never crossed my mind. And if I were smart at that point, I probably would have, every once in a while, taken that time to just interact and talk to people outside or in the grocery store. You know what happened? I mean literally, you know, think back to, to the 90s. I had a bag phone doing this and how expensive the bag phone was, and that's, that's how we spent our time of carrying a back phone around a grocery store. So I didn't have to talk to anybody else but my wife, just so I could get grocery shopping done.
Kim Meninger
So funny and well, the good news, I would say, is that if it's an area that you want to develop, there's so many opportunities to do it, and grocery stores are really safe place to practice, right? You're probably never going to see these people again. Or at least, you know, most people aren't judging you in the same way that maybe you're being evaluated at work.
Tim Newman
Exactly. And that's, that's, that's the key, and that's what, that's one thing I try and tell people, you know, you're, you're in the produce aisle. Ask somebody about the broccoli. You know, if you don't know how, if you don't know how a fruit, how to tell if a fruit is ripe, what are you going to do? You're just going to buy bad fruit, right? I mean, you have to, you have to talk to me, whether it's the person standing next to you or the person works there. You know, baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. And you know, that's when, if you start, because you take a step back to get better at anything you have to practice, you have to actually do it. Because if you, if you don't do it, not only does that anxiety build in you, you don't get better, and it's going to take you longer to get out of that anxiety and longer to, to, to improve, to improve, to get to where you need to be.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, you're right. And I think that when something feels scary, at least for me, my imagination is a very dark place, the reality is always better than my imagination. And like you said, the more you avoid it, the scarier it feels like, the more that that looming thing that you can't avoid, right? Like you've been avoiding speaking, and now you have to do it. It just feels that much scarier, as opposed to just doing the baby steps that you're talking about. And then over time, it's just like a muscle, right? Just like any muscle.
Tim Newman
Exactly, exactly, you know. And the other thing I think about is, the more we make it, let it build up, the more you're going to spit something out. And then people really can look at you and say, Where did that come from? Come from, you know?
Kim Meninger
That’s right. And so what do you think is kind of a another, I don't want to say elementary but I'm thinking like early step for people who are maybe struggling with more of those social and actions, or even just, you know, connecting with people outside of a more formal presentation. Like, is there anything else that you suggest people try or think about?
Tim Newman
Well, you know, I always think. I always think that the starting with the informal piece is always the way to go, but even still that you're still avoiding the things that we have to do from a professional perspective, right? And so we can't do that. So maybe it's going to a networking event, right? Or maybe it's, it's having a conversation with a teammate or a colleague and say, Okay, we, I know we have this, this big presentation coming up. What were this meeting coming up? Can you help walk me through what we're going to talk about in our in our portion where I'm supposed to, to give this part of the presentation? You know, Can you guide me on this? Or can you watch me? Can you, can you help me? And again. Now we're reaching into a into another level, where, especially from an introvert perspective, right? We're putting ourselves out there. That's one. And now number two, we're at, we have to ask somebody else to help us, and as soon as we ask somebody else to help us, now we're saying, Okay, now they know how awful I am and that I'm not good enough to be able to do this, and oh my gosh, they're going to go run around, tell everybody that I really shouldn't be in this job, and I shouldn't be in this position. So now we've got to overcome two, two hurdles. And that's, that's another, another thing to just get over that week number one, that we were hired for a reason. The company, organization didn't hire us to, to fail. They didn't hire us because they needed somebody to make fun of. They didn't hire us to, to spend money, right? They, they hired us because we brought value. We had the knowledge, the skills, the abilities, to fulfill a role that they need fulfilled, and that's what our responsibilities are. So accept it, and if, if we need help, ask for that help, if we you know whatever that is, that that's just part of growing, but it's so hard to get to that point.
Kim Meninger
You're right, and I always try to say that to people too, you already passed the interview, right? You wouldn't be here if you hadn’t. But to your point about asking for help, I also think it's, it might sound counterintuitive because it feels like a vulnerable position to take, but asking for help in the way that you're describing is actually a really good influence strategy to our a relationship-building strategy. Because if you go to another person and you say, hey, you know what, I'd really like your thoughts on this before I present it, or, you know, I'd love to get your feedback, or your tape. You're bringing somebody into the boat with you, so to speak. And so now they feel invested in your message. They are now an ally in the room with you. And you get in there, you're going to feel more confident because you feel like you've already test-driven what you're saying, and somebody else is on board. And so it might feel uncomfortable at, at first, but it's a great way to actually overcome discomfort in the long run.
Tim Newman
Exactly and at least and I'm just going to say for from my own personal perspective, for me, I don't ask for help. I don't it's just not something it's not something that Tim does. There's no way it's going to happen. And, you know, I don't ask for help, don't show emotion, I laugh, but that's about it. And you know, one of the things that I that I personally have had to overcome as, as I've been taking this journey is I tell everybody, I'll step outside their comfort zone. They're seeing me do this right, and I put out a piece of few weeks ago, just about number one, asking for help, because I don't ask for help at all. And my, my business coach and person who's helped me do some other things, she said, I will only work with you if I tell you to do something, you do it. And I said, Okay, I'm a coachable person. You tell me do something, I'll do it. And we had a conversation. She said, This is what I want you to do silent. And said, Are you going to do it? I said, Yeah, I'll do it. And part of that was me having to ask for help. [Oh.] And so it, obviously, it turned out great, but it's also, I think it's important for, for people to see people with experience, or people that that other people are going through the same things that they are. They're not alone. They're truly not alone. Every I think everybody goes through these, these stages at some point in their life, at some point in their career, and to see other people going through those steps say, okay, you know what? If they can do it, I can do it.
Kim Meinger
Yes, yes, you're so bright. Because I was just having this conversation recently too, where there is this perception that for people who achieve a certain level of success, whatever that looks like. Right, that it was because they had some inherent talents or something that this that I don't have, right? Because the process is never transparent. I don't see you struggle on your path to get there. I don't hear you, you know, asking for advice and seeking mentorship. I just assume that you skyrocketed there on your own, right? And then asking for help, obviously brings you support, but it also models it for other people and shows them like you said, you know, this is part of the journey. We all have to get there somehow, right? It's not like we, we wake up one day and we've achieved whatever it is that we set out to achieve.
Tim Newman
Exactly, you know, it's and, you know, I had a conversation this morning, and you know, the person I was talking to said, even CEOs of Fortune 500 companies struggle with this. You know, they struggle with, you know, they're seen as these, these leaders, these, these people that have it all together. But if they're supposed to give a talk in front of their employees, they, they clam up. They don't know how to do it because of and it comes back to what if they found out, find out that I'm not who they think, that I am right, where I mess up, where I, where I, and then I'm being judged. And so understand again, everybody goes through this,
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and the more you worry about that right, the more likely you are to perform at a lower level than you want to. So yeah. And I'm curious to just to get your taken technology right has changed a lot, and the I think about my own kids when I was a kid, we had to call if I wanted to play with a friend, I had to call talk to their parents. I had to learn how to communicate with other adults. I had to speak in full sentences. And nowadays I have, you know, two boys that are nine and 14, and they they're texting in acronyms that I don't even understand. [I don't understand.] They don't speak full sentences. And I think, like, how are they my husband and I are well, how are they going to go out into the world and communicate as professionals, especially as a college professor, I wonder, how do you see people transitioning from that very informal. Don't really have to talk to anybody but themselves into the workplace.
Tim Newman
It's hard. I mean, it's all kidding aside. It's, it's, it's hard. And I don't, I don't know from a societal perspective that we're doing these kids any favors. I really don't, because we allow, we allow it to continue, and we allow it to happen. I one of the things I do is I run golf tournaments, and this past weekend, we had a big tournament, and I was talking to a business leader who's, who's one of our members, and he was talking about the whole idea of writing. And I said, well, you know, number one, they don't know how to write. They don't know how to write a business plan. They don't know how to write an email to a client. They don't know how to write, you know, a sales email, and I said, You okay, that's, that's just one aspect of it. Not only do they not know how to write, they don't know how to write, they don't know how to actually write. Because we don't write anymore. We type everything. And I think, I think that not, not actually writing has hurt our, our language skills, our regular writing skills or regular speaking skills. And now we go to the text message, where you know what you know, where some abbreviations that we that we see, see in text. Ty, thank you. Just why kids just type out thank you. Never, never mind is whatever it is, you know, so we've shortened everything up. And then when it when it comes time to, from a college student perspective, to write a paper or to write an email. And one of the things I used to have my students do was do informational interviews with, with professionals because I think that's one that's something key for them to do, to get out and number one, to network, number two, to talk to people who are doing the things that they may want to do or not want to do, and find out what it's like. And one of the things that they have to do is they actually have to write an email, and I and I've got to see the email, and they're graded on that, and, and they struggle so much with writing a professional email. Because, you know, what I found is most professionals are, are very willing to help if you reach out to them, if you're professional and you and you're specific with, with what you need and what value can also bring to them, right? And so some of the examples of emails I would get were just God awful, and they would say, Why can't get anybody to help me? And I would have to sit down with them and say, this is why. This is why they're not willing to help. Because you're not presenting yourself in a, in a professional manner, that they're not, they're not going to bring you in and give you an hour of their time, if you can't spend 20 minutes or five minutes, whatever it's going to take you to write a professional email. And so the whole idea of writing and communication from, from that written perspective is bad. And then you take it on another level, talking on the phone. Everybody has, everybody has phones. I mean, my, my grandkids, won't, I know, won't get phones until they're much, much older. But right, everybody has a phone. Very few people use it as a phone.
Kim Meninger
That's right, yes.
Tim Newman
And one of it would drive me nuts, and I know I would say it at least. You know, two or three times a week you have a phone, open it up, dial the number and call them. I'm begging you. You know, have a conversation. You know. Think about this from, from a from another perspective. You know, how long does it take to go back and forth on a 15 different emails, back and forth, to come to a conclusion on something I would much rather pick up the phone, have a two minute conversation everything, all the questions are asked and answered and that will be moved forward. That's a problem, I mean, and I think all that, all that comes from the lack of, of confidence in and actually communicating with people or talking to somebody.
Kim Meninger
I could not agree more. I think that the, the technology allows us to avoid what we might perceive as an uncomfortable conversation because we haven't practiced right if you've grown up with the phone, right? And so you haven't been doing the kinds of things that we've been talking about, picking up the phone, talking to other people, then it's just not something that's a comfort zone for you. And then you go through, like you said, the back and forth on these emails. In my mind, unless the information is crystal clear, uncontroversial, not likely to trigger any emotions. You don't send it in an email. [Right. You don’t. Exactly.] You know it's that's like a really good way of presenting very basic facts. But other than that, having the conversation is not only a great forum for practicing your communication skills, but that's how you build trust. That's how you build relationships with other people you don't you're not motivated to be respectful, to be thoughtful, to be empathetic when you can't even see a person on the other side of that message, right? [Exactly.] Yeah. Is there anything you think parents can be doing better? I say that personally, and then I'm also imagining people listening might also be wondering.
Tim Newman
Okay, I think, I think one of the biggest things that they could do is not give the kids phones until they're age-appropriate and get them off of social media. I think social media, let's, let me take a step backwards. I don't put all the blame on social media because we've had some of the things that we're talking about now for forever, the whole idea of, of low self-esteem, low confidence, imposter syndrome, that's been happening for forever. So that is not social media's fault. However, social media has magnified that exponentially because we are so worried about somebody who we don't know is worried about what color shirt that we've got on, or we've said something, or we've liked some other person's, you know, post, or what have you, that doesn't make any difference anyway. And so I think part of it is don't give them phones until it's age appropriate, and keep them off of social media, because it's, it's be, it's become, what it's done to especially adolescents and their, in their psyche. You know, the depression rates, the, the whole idea of suicide rates and, and those types of things I'm saying it's directly related to, to social media use and the and the abuse and the bullying that goes one with that that can't be stopped and can't really be controlled.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, no, you're right and there. And I think about it too, if you're constantly being presented with information about what you're missing, right? You know when, when we were kids, if we weren't invited to a party, there weren't a million pictures what we missed online. And then to your point that as humans, we are already inclined to compare ourselves to other people. And then when you've got it in your face all of the time, you're never going to be able to resist that. And so to be able to build your own sense of self outside of those external forces and judgments is so important.
Tim Newman
I think something that they can do that's going to empower kids is make them talk to other people. So obviously, I come from education. My wife was an educator as well, and she and I really disagreed on this beginning, I told my kids, and they're grown now. I said, you know, if, if you have a problem in in school, if you have a problem with a teacher, don't come to me. I want you to go and address it with the teacher. And this was in first grade. I said, I want you to go and address it with a teacher, and if you don't feel like you've been heard, or you don't like the outcome, then you come to me, but don't you have to learn to advocate for yourself and learn how to deal with different people with different personalities at different levels, to, to be able to grow, and what you're going to find is, you know if, if you do that, you're going to get a much better response than if I come in and start asking questions.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, yeah, that's a great practice. I think that's something that all parents should really think about. Our school system is pretty good once my son got into middle school-ish, but certainly in high school now, the teachers pretty much require that the kids be the one to communicate with them, which is great, because it's just too easy to say, Hey, mom, dad, would you handle this for me? Right? It's a really great you talked about advocacy. I think it's a really great way to build that kind of self-advocacy at a young age.
Tim Newman
But you would be surprised at the number of times parents would call me or email me from the college professor perspective, yeah, and I would, I'd politely tell them that number one, legally, I can't talk about your son or daughter. [They're adults.] And number, number two, you're not doing them any favors. They've got to learn how to do this. Because you're, I hope to God, you're not going to job interview, right? But you know you're if they get passover promotion, are you going to call their boss their annual evaluation? They got two points less than you thought that they deserved? How are you going to handle this?
Kim Meninger
It's really true, and so that's something that that's a great tip for parents to really think about as early as possible. And you know, you said, I think a really good point of like, they can start if they need help, we can be there to step in, but to take the first step is really important. And it really is mind-blowing when I think about you saying parents reaching out and calling, I don't think my mom would have even known any who to contact, right, right? There's just no way she didn't even have the emotion. It's amazing like this, how much parenting has evolved to be so overly involved.
Tim Newman
Yeah, you know, and, and so but like I said, my last semester was in this past fall, and in December, the last email I got from parent, they were having some issues, and they moved, and there's they moved to Arizona, I think it was, and their son had to, to go home, and she emailed me about his assignments, and I said, Ma'am I, I get it, you know, however, I can't, I can't talk about it. All you have to do is tell him to email me and we can work it out. And lo and behold, he emails me, we get it worked out. And then she the mother, sends me an email. Thank you so much. I didn't think about it from that perspective. And, you know, so, so, again, it's, we've developed these helicopter parents, and they, they don't actually think about what they're doing or how they're not actually helping their, their kids. And I think that, again, that all comes back to the whole idea of technology because we've, you know, my guess is, you know where your kids are right now, obviously, they're in school, right? Unless you're on a snow day. I don't know if you're in a snow place. [Oh, no, no, snow day here.] Yeah, okay, but, but they're in school or, you know, if something's not right, you could, you could find them, you could pick up your phone, and you could find them in about 10 or 15 seconds. Yeah. Right? And that's, that's our mentality. I mean, talk about phones as kids, I had rotary phone. We had rotary phones, right? And so you talk about Generation X people, parents didn't know they had commercials. You know where your kids you know where your kids are. That was that. That was us, right? And now we, if you're 15 feet away, we get upset. And so I think there's, there's got to be happy medium in there somewhere, right?
Kim Meninger
Well, it is funny to think I remember those commercials. Do you know where your children are? Yeah, no, this is really helpful, Tim. I think you've given some really great tips for us as professionals, but also as parents. And I really feel like the sooner we start this process, the easier it is. And so I certainly, as you know, the parent of children that are, you know, I've got one who's a freshman in high school, he's going to be going off to college before I know. And so, you know, I really appreciate the insights and the work that you're doing for others who want more of you and your work, where can they find you?
Tim Newman
I laugh at that because many people want more of that. But anyway, you can find me at Tim Newman speaks dot com, loads of free resources to help you become better, more confident speakers. There's also you can sign up and register for the forum for public speaking, and basically that's a step-by-step process to help you build that confidence and to become that, that better more confident speaker.
Kim Meninger
Perfect. Well, I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes. And thanks again for being here. I really appreciate it, Tim.
Tim Newman
Kim, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Take care.