Action Before Readiness

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we explore a powerful reframe of impostor syndrome and what it looks like to build confidence without waiting for self-doubt to disappear. My guest this week is Joy Rowland, a leadership and business coach who brings a deeply personal and neuroscience-informed perspective to overcoming impostor syndrome.

Joy shares her journey as a solo immigrant who moved to the UK at age 25 without family or community support and spent more than two decades navigating corporate life while quietly wrestling with impostor syndrome. For Joy, self-doubt was not theoretical. It was lived. She opens up about how her background, identity, and early experiences shaped the beliefs she carried into her career and how she eventually learned to stop treating impostor syndrome as something that needed to be eliminated before she could succeed.

In our conversation, we talk about why impostor syndrome often intensifies during periods of growth and why its presence can be a signal that you are stretching into something new rather than proof that you do not belong. Joy explains how our brains are wired for survival, not confidence, and why understanding concepts like negativity bias, neuroplasticity, and the role of the prefrontal cortex can completely change how we relate to self-doubt.

Joy also shares practical tools she uses with her clients, including how to build an evidence bank to counteract harsh inner narratives, how community accelerates confidence by giving our brains proof of what is possible, and why waiting to feel ready keeps so many capable women stuck. We walk through simple practices like brain dumps and reverse engineering desired outcomes to help listeners take back agency over their thoughts, emotions, and results.

We also discuss why impostor syndrome may never fully go away and why that does not have to stop you. Joy reframes impostor syndrome as something you can bring with you on your journey rather than something you must conquer before moving forward. Her message is both grounding and empowering: confidence is built through action, not credentials, and success does not require the absence of fear.

About My Guest

Joy—known as The Neuro Reset Success Coach—is a transformational coach who helps high-achieving women break through impostor syndrome, dissolve subconscious blocks, and step into their next level of success with confidence and clarity. After battling her own cycles of overthinking, perfectionism, and chronic self-doubt, she discovered that impostor syndrome isn’t a mindset problem—it’s a nervous system pattern. Today, she blends neuroscience, identity work, and practical strategy to help women rewire their beliefs, expand their capacity for success, and create results that feel authentic and sustainable.

Through her coaching programs, workshops, and podcast, she teaches women how to shift from “Who am I to do this?” to “Of course it’s me.” Her mission is to help women stop playing small, own their power, and rise into the leaders they’re meant to be.

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Connect with Joy:

Free $10k Months Blueprint - https://explore.joyrowland.com/10k-months-blueprint/

Connect on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joy.rowland_/

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Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Joy. It's so great to have you here today. I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Joy Rowland

Oh my gosh, Kim, thank you so much for this opportunity. I've been listening to your podcast, I think, for the past couple of months, and I absolutely love your content, so it's a very big privilege to be here. So my name is Joy Rowland. I am now a coach, but before now, I have spent over 23 years in corporate so I have battled impostor syndrome for all of my adult life. And the reason why that is the case is because I'm an immigrant. I was a solo immigrant. I left my country at the age of 25 in search of a better life and coming to the UK at that time, at 25 I didn't have any family, no friends, so it was impostor syndrome at the height like it wasn't just a brain thing or a mind thing, it was actual impostor syndrome. So my journey has been so interesting, me evolving and dealing with the impostor syndrome and evolving to becoming the woman I am today. So I'm very excited to share my story and inspire your audience to tell them that you can overcome impostor syndrome, and even if you don't overcome impostor syndrome, you can bring impostor syndrome along to your destiny. You don't have to solve for impostor syndrome all of the time.

Kim Meninger

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that, and that has got to be a really scary transition when you're coming by yourself to a new country. I mean, it's not surprising that that would come with a lot of self-doubt, right? Did you, I mean, did you seek out support resources? How did you navigate those early days when I can only imagine how challenging it must have been?

Joy Rowland

Oh, gosh, I didn't intentionally seek out support, like I didn't even know about impostor syndrome as a term, right? It was just something I was feeling internally, and I was just very self-conscious, like I didn't even realize that other women experienced impostor syndrome, only later in life, as I started to grow my network, I see even white women. So by the way, I'm black if you're listening on the audio. And when I started making friends and white women would tell me they have impostor syndrome too, and I'm like, why your white, right? So that really opened my eyes to see that it doesn't matter your background or your experiences, especially as women, because of how we've been socialized. Many of us struggle with finding our place in society, finding our place in the world, and coming to terms with the fact that success is available for us too. And so it's just been a very interesting journey, and ever since, I have now invested in self-development to like understand how the human brain works, how neuroplasticity works, and that ties into the work you do, Kim, and it's just been a fascinating area of my life, and I now get to help other women through, especially in business.

Kim Meninger

I'm really grateful that you brought that up, and I'm curious. First of all, if you can tell me a little bit about your coaching, and then we'll dive more deeply into the brain and all that fun stuff.

Joy Rowland

Yes, so my coaching evolved as I evolved, right? Just like I explained all of the things I struggled with made me want to create more for my business. I wanted to create a successful business. Like I said, I've been in corporate for 23 years, but I just felt I had this calling inside of me to explore entrepreneurship. And so that was about three years ago, and so I started investing, and sadly I can say sadly now, over the course of three years, I had invested over $180,000 on certifications, courses, programs, all of these things. And after investing $180,000 I had zero clients, and I'm like, what's going on? And then I realized that I was searching outside. Of myself for validation, more certification. I went through the lifeboat school that alone was $21,000 Bob Proctor, Les Brown, all of these big names. I just felt that will give me the confidence to show up and sell my services. And when that didn't happen, I knew I had to go inwards to identify the thought patterns that was making me feel inadequate, that was making me feel I needed external certifications and validation and courses and programs to boost my confidence to be able to sell my coaching services. And so now I help other women realize that you are enough exactly how you are. You don't need any of these other external validation to create the life of success you desire.

Kim Meninger

I'm so glad you mentioned that too, because I think one of the things that many of us feel is that if we're not feeling confident, just taking more courses, learning more is going to eventually make us feel ready. But that's not how it works. And there's this false sense of, oh, if I just keep adding credentials, if I just keep adding, you know, trainings, whatever it might look like that, then I'll be an expert, and I'll be able to go out there and it just, you know, as you're as you're sharing from your own experience and as I've experienced myself too, it's the only way to do what you want to do confidently is to start doing it before you're confident.

Joy Rowland

Yes, and that goes against what we've been socialized as kids, right? We want to get to the point where we are confident before we actually take the action. And so what I tell myself and my clients now is that impostor syndrome is actually a good thing, because if I'm just laying down on my bed, I wouldn't feel impostor syndrome. The only reason I feel impostor syndrome is because I am attempting to do something I've never done before, to take me to the next level. And so the example I love to give is my daughter. She's six years old now, and when she turned six, so this is about eight months ago, I enrolled her in swimming lessons. The first class she was like she was horrible in the water for the first time, and so would somebody seen her struggle in the water at that time, call her an impostor. No, right? But now last Saturday, she was like a fish in the water, and I started to ask myself, Wow, look at how she's evolved. Only because she kept showing up every Saturday and practice it, and now she's like an Olympic swimmer. And so I want to encourage people listening that if you feel impostor syndrome, that's a good thing, because you are attempting to get to the next level, and that's why you have impostor syndrome. And so it's just fascinating how our brains, the human brain, my brain, included, offers all of these limiting beliefs just to keep us safe, not from a malicious point of view, but because that part of our brain thinks that keeping us inside means we are safe, and so we need to Activate the prefrontal cortex, which is our executive brain to coach, our toddler brain to say it's going to be okay. We are learning this thing, and the more we show up, do the work, we're going to get better.

Kim Meninger

There's so much power in what you just said. And I think if we think of impostor syndrome, and I like to think about it this way too, is it's a signal. It's a signal of growth, like you said, right? It's a signal that we're stepping outside of our comfort zones. As you said, if I'm not doing anything challenging, if I'm not growing, then there's no reason for me to feel like an impostor. The only time I feel like an impostor is when I'm stretching myself, which is a good thing, right? So I think just really thinking about the way we're interpreting the message, because I also agree with you that the brain does very well intentioned, but, you know, maybe not exactly helpful types of things to keep us safe, and so wants us to stay in the car. He would rather have us stay in the bed, where it knows that nothing could go wrong and we're just going to be in the safe little space, right? That's not how we want to live our lives, though. And so to be able to have that conversation, to be able to like you're saying, sort of cognitively, rather than. From a very primal fear-based way. Say, Hey, you know what this is, I get what you're trying to do here, but this is not what I need right now, right? Like, I'm safe, I'm okay, right? You don't need to worry?

Joy Rowland

Yes, absolutely. And you know, Kim, I attended a conference in April. It was called the beyond patient care conference for, for clinicians, doctors, nurses. And I spoke at that conference one of the other speakers. Her name is Dr Jeninger, and she founded an app called Web PT, and right now, she's bringing over $7 million per year in her business, multiple seven figures. At the time, she reported, and during her presentation, she said, many days she still wakes up with impostor syndrome. She feels like a fraud, even though she has like almost 25 staff in her organization, and she, she says she still feels like she's a fraud, and she still feels like she's an impostor. And so she encouraged us in that conference to say it may never go away. So maybe it's okay we feel the impostor syndrome, but we get to create success with the impostor syndrome. And the reason I say it may never go away is because, let's say you are seeking promotion to C suite, for example, when you get that promotion after maybe a year or two, you're going to have new dreams, right, new aspirations, right? So another impostor syndrome will come up as you continue to evolve. So I, I now I enjoy impostor syndrome. That's how I know that I'm on the brink of something big.

Kim Meninger

I like to think of it that way too, that if you're not you're not really going to cure impostor syndrome, as long as you continue to want to challenge yourself. I think that when impostor syndrome goes away, it could be a sign of stagnation. So as long as you're still growing challenging, stretching outside of your comfort zone, there's always the possibility that impostor syndrome is going to show up. The difference is, as we're talking about, it may not be as disruptive, it will likely be more of a nuisance than a crippling experience, right? When we understand it and we understand how to manage it, then we can kind of keep it in its place and recognize it for what it is.

Joy Rowland

Yes, and being in community really helps, just like what you're creating in your business. Kim, I have found that when I am in a community of women who are trying to achieve what I'm trying to achieve, I find support in that and also giving my brain evidence of someone who has achieved what I'm trying to do. So for example, I am in business. My coach, Brooke Castillo, she's incredibly successful. And I give my brain evidence of what's possible for women when we overcome our impostor syndrome. How be it for a short amount of time to hit that goal? So giving your brain evidence that someone else has done exactly what you're trying to do. Really, really helps.

Kim Meninger

Yes, yeah, do you? You know you're, you're a coach now, so it puts you in a little bit of a different position, at least. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but for me, I'm often supporting people who are coming to me because of the doubts and things that they're feeling. But there's still times in my experience where I start to think to myself, Oh, gosh, maybe, you know, I feel like an impostor again. Maybe it's, you know, being invited into a certain conversation or giving it a presentation in a certain space. But how do you think about your own relationship to impostor syndrome today. Does it still kind of show up for you in ways that you need to actively intervene? Is it more there, but you've, you've developed habits that allow you to, like, manage through it a little bit more effectively, like, what? What does it look like for you now?

Joy Rowland

Yeah, so it ebbs and flows. Actually, I feel like it's always there, permanently in the background, maybe very subtle, but then some events would happen, and then it will blow up, right? So it ebbs and flows for me, and those times when it blows up. What really helps me is going back and seeing evidence of my past work. So on my YouTube channel, I have an unlisted video, which is a compilation of all of the testimonials clients have said about my work. So now it's a. About 20 minutes or 25 minutes long. And when I feel that impostor syndrome really high, I just go into that hidden video on my YouTube channel. Watch the video, and many times at the end of the video, I'm balling my eyes in tears what people have said about my work, and that just boosts my confidence. I'm like, Oh my gosh, let's go. So that strategy works for me all the time. So I usually encourage people to find what strategy works for them, so that at those times when the impostor syndrome is so loud, you have something to go back to. We call this your evidence back. So maybe just have a journal, just for all of the amazing things you've done in your life. And when the impostor syndrome comes, just open the journal and just read, and it does magic.

Kim Meninger

Yes, and I, I think that there's brain science associated with this too, right? Because, just as we were talking about when we're talking about the brain wanting to keep you in your comfort zone, it's designed as this survival system creates that negativity bias that makes us always see the bad in the world and in ourselves, and so we're so keenly aware of all of the things that we don't know how to do, or the perceived mistakes and flaws. And so what you're describing is really important because it consciously shifts our attention to the positive and reminds us of things that we may not even register because we're so busy noticing all of the bad stuff. I think it's so important to have practices that intentionally draw your attention to what you already know and to what you've already done.

Joy Rowland

Well, yes, what you just shared is so powerful, and the reason it resonates with me so well is because I through my study now of neuroscience, I realized that the reason our brain, our brains have a negativity bias, is because when we used to live in caves, our brains would have to scan the environment, always identifying things that were about to hurt us, right? So that's why we have that negativity bias. But now we don't live in caves anymore, but that part of our brain doesn't know.

Kim Meninger

That's right exactly.

Joy Rowland

It's trying to keep us safe, and only because of the work you've done and I've done. That's why we now know that we've evolved and we now have the executive part of our brain that we can then use to override the survival part. And so it's just really fascinating to see how the human brain works and how we can harness the human brain for our own good when you know how to rewire all of those burdens to give you the I want to say the thought to get to the action, and then to get to the results, so we can rewire those thoughts to create the results we want in our lives.

Kim Meninger

Do you have other thoughts on small, kind of, bite-sized practices that people listening can engage in to help them with some of the brain work that you're talking about?

Joy Rowland

Yes, absolutely. The easiest way and the fastest way to start is to first do a brain dump. And when I say brain dump, it means becoming aware of the subconscious thoughts, and that can be very difficult, because if over 90% of our thoughts happen at the subconscious level, it takes work to even identify those thoughts, because those thoughts are happening at the subconscious level, like we aren't even aware we are thinking those thoughts. So the first thing is to do a brain dump and to identify the thoughts that are creating the results you, you currently have. Let's say you've been seeking promotion at work and you're not getting the promotion. Well, there is a pattern of thoughts that you are thinking that is creating their results. And so the first step is to identify those results, those thoughts. And then the model I use is called the CT far model, which is circumstance which are neutral. And then thoughts, thoughts create feelings in our bodies, and then those feelings we feel compel us to take specific actions or inactions, and then those actions give us results. So when you know how the formula works, you can actually reverse engineer to say, if my goal is to receive a promotion of a. Don't know, $200 $200,000 more. What? What thoughts would I need to be thinking to create those results? So that's a very simple formula anybody can use. It's called CTF. We are circumstance or neutral, then tea, thoughts, then feelings, then actions, then results. So once you have that mapped out, you can see, oh, if the thought is, nobody listens to me at work or when I speak in meetings, nobody listens, that's your thoughts. Well, if you think that, how does it feel in your body? Well, you feel small. When you feel small, what action do you take? Well, you go to the toilet, and you cry, and you cry. What results do you create? Well, you create no promotion. Okay, so if we then reverse engineer and say, Okay, I want a promotion, what action do I need to take to get a promotion? Well, I need to be more visible at work. Okay, that's the action. All right, let's go back a step further and say, What do I need to be thinking or feeling? Do I need to be feeling to be more visible? Well, I need to be feeling empowered. I need to be feeling successful. Well, if I want to be feeling empowered and successful, what thoughts should I be thinking? Well, I can choose the thought. I'm a bad ass. I know my job, right? So you can reverse engineer so that you create the results you desire.

Kim Meninger

Well, and what I like about what you're describing is that it gives you the ability to take more personal control over things that often feel out of reach for us because we're not consciously aware of them, right? So you're talking about thoughts, you're talking about feelings, you're talking about circumstances that sometimes we just feel like we're at the mercy of whatever's happening around us, as opposed to saying, Hey, I have a choice here, right? Like I can rethink how I'm thinking about this, right, or I can take action that will lead me to feel differently. And I think that's very empowering in and of itself.

Joy Rowland

Absolutely, and that's why I love this model a lot, because circumstances are neutral, but two different people can choose two different thoughts about the same exact circumstance and create different results for themselves. And yes, you are so right? It shows that we can see how much power we have and see how we are actually creating our reality. We like I'm a person of faith, and the section of the Bible says, Ye are gods. We are creators. You get to create. So when you see yourself in that empowered state, you get to decide and say, Oh, I have so much more power than I'm giving myself credit for, and that empowerment and knowledge, I believe, is the first step to creating the life and success you desire.

Kim Meninger

I agree. I agree with you. I think that a lot of impostor syndrome is rooted in this feeling of I have to do things a certain way. I have to, I have to meet other people's expectations. I'm not good enough, right? As opposed to really thinking about where our own personal power lies. And just in knowing that you have choices, just in knowing that you do have some control or some agency over your life and the decisions that you're making makes you feel more confident.

Joy Rowland

Yes, absolutely. And that's why I love the, the work I do, because I have seen this firsthand. So like I said when I started, even in my business, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have a terrible accent. Who's going to understand me? Who's going to hire me? And I kept saying all of those things to myself. Well, fast forward to today. Over 85% of my clients currently are pure white. And now I tell them my brain, and I say, Well, look at this now, apparently people can understand my accent, right? So, yeah, seeing that you have so much more power over your actions, over your feelings, over the results you create, is so, so empowering. And if anything, I am testament that you can create whatever results you desire, regardless of the impostor syndrome you feel.

Kim Meninger

That's such an inspirational way to frame what you're talking about. And I feel like that's probably a good place for us to wrap up. I want. To make sure that everybody knows how they can find you. I know you do this work. Where, where can they learn more about you and your work and stay connected to you?

Joy Rowland

Yes, thank you so much. So I host a show called Next Level Women. So you can find me on YouTube. I'm also active on Instagram, so if you search Joy Rowland, or I can send the link to my handle to Kim so she can add it to the show notes. And I just love to connect with women, so just send me a DM and I will be your cheerleader to help you get to the next level.

Kim Meninger

Oh, wonderful. Thank you so much. Joy for sharing your own story, for sharing your words of wisdom. It's been really wonderful to have you here.

Joy Rowland

Thank you so much, Kim.