Harnessing Your Inner Strength

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about harnessing your inner strength to overcome self-doubt. My guest this week is Dr. Jenn Donahue, an engineer, retired U.S. Navy officer and author of the book, Becoming the Warrior: Harnessing Your Inner Strength to Silence Self-Doubt. Jenn’s journey spans ocean engineering, seismic design and military leadership across some of the most high-pressure environments in the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. But her most powerful transformation has been personal: learning to quiet the voice of self-doubt and lead with authenticity, even in the most hcigh-stakes arenas.

Jenn shares how her early confidence gave way to self-doubt as she pursued advanced degrees and navigated toxic workplace cultures. We explore what it feels like to be the only woman in the room, the cost of trying to lead like someone you’re not and how finding the right mentor helped Jenn embrace a leadership style grounded in empathy and trust.

She also introduces her warrior framework, a science-backed, practical system built from her military and engineering experience to help others reframe their inner dialogue and lead with greater confidence.

About My Guest

Jenn Donahue, PhD, PE is an international keynote speaker, retired U.S. Navy captain, business coach, and one of America’s leading experts on leadership and personal growth. Her mission is to walk alongside leaders, quiet the voices holding them back, and show them how to become the leaders they were meant to be. Because leadership isn’t about the spotlight—it’s about service, courage, and building others up.

Over her twenty-seven-year military career, Jenn built a bridge across the Euphrates River during the Iraq War, commanded an eight-hundred-personnel battalion in Afghanistan, and led the construction of combat outposts in hostile desert terrain.

In her inspiring debut book, “Becoming the Warrior: Harnessing Your Inner Strength to Silence Self-Doubt,” Jenn draws from her experiences on the battlefield to build a framework that helps readers combat their inner critics, achieve their goals, and uncover the warrior within them.

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Connect with Jenn:

Website: www.warriorframework.com

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Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome Jenn. It's so great to have you here. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I'd love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jenn Donahue

Absolutely. So I am an engineer. I'm like an engineer's engineer. I've been engineering since I was about four years old, and I love to build. So that's really been taking me through my entire life. I went to become an engineer in college, and then I decided, You know what, I need to go and see the world. So I decided to join the United States Navy, and I did as an engineer, and I got to go all over the world. I was in Alaska, Puerto Rico, Guam, Afghanistan, Iraq, couple other places like that, and I was both active and reserve. And so now I'm an engineer on the outside, I've retired, but now I'm also a speaker and an author, and I've been going around the world and having so much fun talking to people about what it takes to get over their own self, doubt, their own imposter syndrome, all those things that are really holding them back. And I feel like everything that I've done in my life really helps, you know, others get to where they need to go. Because, wow, there were some, there were some big challenges.

Speaker 3

I can imagine. I mean, just being a female engineer is still challenging. And you know, you hear the unfortunate statistics about women dropping out of engineering and tech and, and then, of course, being in the Navy, right that comes with its own set of pressures. I'd love to start with the engineering piece of your background, and just ask you what it felt like being on that track, and what kind of self-doubt you may have experienced along the way. You know anything that you're willing to share about that part of your background.

Jenn Donahue

Sure, I was an ocean engineer, and so there was only two of us in only two women in my class, and so yes, kind of got used to like being around all men all the time. But I'll tell you, whenever I was younger, I will tell I was like, man. I was a Spitfire. There is nothing that's going to stop me. There was no self-doubt. There was no imposter syndrome. It was just like, go, go, go, go, go. It wasn't until later on in life when those items really started to pop up. Whenever I went to get my master's degree, when I went to and I also got a PhD in engineering. And yes, definitely lots and lots of self-doubt, because I was in the military for several years, and then I went back to school. And, you know, there's all these, like young kids, you know, I do have experience in industry, but, yeah, I I didn't remember how to do differential equations, and I just kept thinking, wow, these people are so much smarter than me. I'm never going to make it. Lots of self-doubt, lots of imposter syndrome through the engineering and it was really until I finally graduated. I was like, okay, like, I gave myself the grace to say, like, Wow, I did it. But during that whole time, you know, there was all the self-doubt that came about with that. And even in industry, there are so few women that do what I do, I'm now a seismic engineer, that we're always outnumbered. The women are always outnumbered. And you just look at all of these, you know, older men, and you just think, wow, look at all that they've done in their lives. You know, how can I even compete? Wow, I'm actually sitting at the table. They let me sit at the table with these people. And, yeah, you don't realize that it's like, hey, you know, everybody was there at some point in their life. And we just keep comparing ourselves to people that are maybe above us, and thinking, wow, how could I ever be like that?

Kim Meninger

And I think you're bringing up one of the most common, I don't know symptom is maybe not the right way to describe it, imposter syndrome, but that comparison trap that we fall right of really looking around and thinking everyone else is so much more qualified or worthy, or, you know, so much smarter, and losing perspective like you're saying, you know, somebody who's 20 years older, of course, is going to have 20 years more of experience.

Jenn Donahue

You know, we joke, and we call them the gray beards. You know, there's all these, like, older men, and they all have gray beards, and you're comparing yourself to a gray beard. And I was like, No, they've had, like, 60 years in the industry. Of course, they have more papers than you do, you know, and they've also had so much more experience. But again, they started out probably where you are, you know, so look at where in you're probably actually ahead of where they were at that age. So I think it's really interesting to, like, really get some perspective when you're starting to have those feelings.

Kim Meninger

Absolutely, I mean, I think it, it's, it sounds silly, but it can be helpful and just remind. us of some of the absurdity of the pressure that we're putting on ourselves. To say nobody was born with a PhD in Engineering at the start somewhere. And it's interesting to hear you talk about the fact that you didn't always have self, self-doubt. There was a time when you were much more confident, and would you attribute it to going back to school and having that new frame of reference in terms of comparison, or were there other factors that may have come into play as well?

Jenn Donahue

I think for me, was also a lot of maturity whenever I was younger. I mean, like I said, I was just a Spitfire and I was like, Don't tell me. No, I'm gonna go do it like you just watch me. And I got into the Navy, and one of the things that the Navy also did is it definitely humbled you quite a bit, and you made you realize that you don't know everything that you thought you did. And they really put you through the ringer. They basically tear you all the way down, and they build you back up. Well, in this process, that's when you also start to learn like, oh, wait a minute, like, I'm not as infallible as I previously thought. I think that's also important. So as you're going through, you're starting to realize you know, you, you do have all these things that you don't know, that you have to ask, and that can be really scary. And so whatever, I decided to to quit active duty and go back to school, all of a sudden, all of those feelings. Now you know that little Spitfire was, was gone, and here's this person who's actually taking stock of what's going on in the world that no, I don't remember how to do differential equations. I don't remember how to do some of these things and, and that's actually where a lot of the self-doubt came from, you know. And in the military, there were several times where also I didn't do as well as I thought I was going to do. And you start to have a couple of failures start to come up. And that's also some of the things that start to weigh on you whenever you start to have imposter syndrome, when you have, you know, that kind of like, fear of failure, because you've had it before. And whenever I was younger, I didn't really have that, but whenever I started to accumulate, you know, some of these failures, that's when, you know, all of those, what I call the mean little voice, starts to, you know, starts to step up and say, hey, well, wait a minute. Remember when you did that? Yeah, you didn't do it so well. And you know, that really starts to compound, you know, if you don't take care of, you know, those other thoughts.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and it's interesting, because, on the one hand, there's a lot of value to humility, right? [Yes.] I think it's important to recognize that we're not perfect and to want to strive to get better, but there's like a fine line between humility and that sort of self-destructive thinking that comes into play.

Jenn Donahue

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Kim Meninger

Well, and one of the other influencers, I guess, of, of imposter syndrome is often the culture in which you operate. And I'm curious how your experience was being in the Navy. Did you find that there was anything about just being in that world? You mentioned the kind of breaking you down, kind of experience, but anything else about being in, especially like a very heavily male-dominated environment, that maybe led to some of the self-doubt or inner critic thinking that you're describing?

Jenn Donahue

Sure. So there again, there's so few women in engineering, and of that, there's so few women in engineering that decide to join the Navy. We were 9% women the entire time that I was there, out of, you know, the entire Engineer Corps. And so a lot of times you are the only woman in the room, and you look around, and a lot of times you didn't really, I didn't have any mentors. I was one of the very first females that ever got to a battalion, because that's when they first started letting women into some of these roles. So I had no role model, I had no mentor, and there was a zero tolerance for anybody messing up during that time. So you had to be perfect all the time, and that puts a lot of stress on you. And so you look around and figure out, okay, well, what is everybody else doing, and how can I do it just as well as they are? And a lot of times, what they were doing was they didn't feel good to me. You know, a lot of them were yellers, like the officers were yellers. And so I tried that for a little while. I thought, Okay, well, that's how you get people to do things as you yell at them that just felt horrible to me and it I it took me a while to try to figure out, how do I get over this? Because I realized I was failing as an officer because I, I didn't like showing up the way that I was, you know, I was supposed to be this, you know, rough, tough, you know. Know female and yell at people. And I was like, That's not who I am. I had to get, I finally did, get a mentor who said, hey, you know what? That's not you. I can tell that you're empathetic. I can tell that you actually like to listen to people. And I said, Yeah. I said, I love to create teams. I like to listen to people. I like to draw the best from all of them, and I don't like yelling at him, like, I like to have conversations, and he says, Just do that. Just do that. And I was like, Oh, okay. So whenever I started to do that, all of a sudden, like, I started to feel better about what I was doing and how I was showing up. And so I think that's where it really has to get to. Because, you know, I did feel like an impostor.  I was the only female. I was an impostor, kind of, in a way. And, yeah, it took me a little while. It took me several months to try to figure out who I am and how I wanted to lead others. And then I basically broke free from that and said, “No, this is how I want to be.” I'm happier, I'm less stressed, and, you know, I'm actually making some pretty good teamwork here. And that's, you know, really, where kind of all came together.

Kim Meninger

That's such an important point, because there, there are sort of two pieces to what you said that I want to call out number one was that values conflict, or that authenticity conflict, right? When you're trying to put on a persona that doesn't come naturally to you, and you're already probably feeling a little bit uncomfortable being in this role, and we all are when we're doing something new and then feeling the pressure to do it in a way that's not aligned with how we want to show up in the world. It truly is a you know you are an imposter, and you're pretending to be someone that you're not. Naturally, you're not going to feel confident doing that. And then the My favorite part of what you said was having someone who validates that, that that is not the only way to do it, and that your style has value too and really encouraging you to do it your way. And I think that one of the, the best strategies for overcoming the fear, the insecurity, that the anxiety of imposter syndrome, is really leaning into your own values, because when you're thinking about your values, you're less likely to be thinking about your fears, right?

Jenn Donahue

You know? And I also look at as like whenever I took all the pressure off myself and stopped thinking about myself and started thinking about my troops and how I could make them better, wow, that felt so much better, also, because I wasn't so worried about it. It was like, hey, you know what? I know it's going to work out. I'm just going to stop concentrating on myself. I'm going to concentrate on others. That's how I also help that helped turn it around, you know, a lot quicker as well.

Kim Meninger

That's another great point. I think I always like to think about it is when we're thinking about ourselves. It's often from a place of self-criticism, or we're judging ourselves or worrying about being judged by others. And so all the attention, attention is on ourselves. But if you think about, how can I be of greatest service in this moment, in whatever environment you're in, your attention then shifts to how to help others. How can you show up in relationship to the people that you're with? And that takes a lot of the pressure off yourself, and it allows you to be much more effective, more confident, add more value.

Jenn Donahue

And, you know, it's sort of what you started out with, boy, we can be so mean to ourselves. Just the things that we tell ourselves, the things that we try to convince ourselves of, Wow, we can just be so mean. It's just sort of one of those things where she's like, Hey, we need to learn how, you know, to shut that off, you know, and, and refocus on, you know, things that are more important, things that are true. That's what, that's what I that's one of the things I really, I just, I just wrote a book, and one of the things I'm really excited about is really trying to differentiate those voices and quiet that mean little voice. And basically look at, how do we amplify a more positive voice, and how do we serve others? You know, in doing so.

Kim Meninger

Are you open to sharing a little bit more about the book? Obviously, we want people to, I'd love to hear more about, you know, what is there like a structure that a framework that you're sharing, like, when you think about what you're talking about, I think people always think like, that's so hard to do, right? Like, it's hard to imagine doing it. So, any tips that you're willing to share for how to get to that place?

Jenn Donahue

Yes, oh, I love this part. So, yeah. There is a framework. I call it my warrior framework. And what it is is it's built upon what we do in the military, anytime we have an enemy coming at us. And I like to meet people where they are. Sometimes when I say, Hey, have you really thought about the little voices in your head? You know, they'll look at me kind of like, what like, like, and then I was like, Well, you know, start to think about it. And they were like, oh, yeah, I guess there is that sort of, like, that mean, little voice that's, you know, tries to tell them things. And so the first step always is about just perceiving, like, think about the thoughts in your head, you know, what is going on there? It's the same thing in the military where you look out, and we call it situational awareness, or you just kind of get a lay of the land, and you think, Okay, well, what's going on around me? That's what it is. The next part is assessing, and for the military, that's like, is it a friend, or is it a foe in our head? Is that little voice, is it actually trying to help us, or is it trying to just be mean? Is it trying to hold us back? That's what that part is all about. And I go through several different ways where we can try to think about, is this really a helpful voice, or is this a voice that is not letting you move forward because you know it wants you to just stay in your status quo? The next part in the military is about if it is a foe to ready. And so the foes coming at you, there's several different things we do. We do, like hand signals, shoot flares, all kinds of things like that, to just say, Hey, back off. We can do the same thing with our thoughts. And this is where we get into that part about how do we be more positive? And so I honestly believe that in addition to this mean, little nasty voice that we have, we also have a voice that's positive. You know, that's the one that says, I can, I can do this. And so we have to find that voice, and we have to amplify that voice, and there's a couple of different ways that we can do that. And also I'm a nerd. Yes, I am an engineer, but I also love studying things like neuroscience and understanding how the brain works. And there's definitely ways that we can create more positivity. One of the easiest ones is to start with one win a day. Think about one win every single day, and just write it down. Write it down a piece of paper, get a sticky note, whatever it might be, and just write down one thing that you've done positive today. It doesn't matter if like you, you know, you signed a huge client. Maybe you just have the grace to just work out. Maybe you took a walk, whatever that might be, whatever that one win is, and the first couple days are probably going to be kind of hard. But here's the cool part, because I love science. Your brain, when you start to do something repetitive, especially over about 28 days, it creates new neural pathways, and so the brain actually starts to look for positive things that have happened during the day, which is really awesome. So by the 28th day, when you're starting to think about these wins, you might have, like, 3456, different wins that you might have, and this is a way to start training your brain to be more positive. And there's some other exercises that I have that, whenever you have that mean little voice, how do you directly attack it? You know, in that ready stage to say, like, Hey, back off. And then the final act of the framework is all about acting like, Just do it. Like, just take one little step, you know, just, just one step. And then the military, obviously, that means we had to take some kind of action against the enemy. But in the book, I just say, like, Hey, man, just, just take one little step. And I have a whole, you know, couple of different things. It's just like, you know, just pick up your phone and just Google whatever that goal is that you want to do. Make that the first step. Make it the first super easy, most accessible little step that you can and then celebrate the fact that you do it. Because, getting back to neuroscience, whenever we celebrate all these little wins again, that's like releasing dopamine, and it's like, it's getting me, it's excited about like, Hey, that was actually pretty cool. I can reward myself, and it gives you momentum. So you can teach keep taking tiny little step after tiny little step. But it all starts with tiny steps.

Kim Meninger

I love that so much. There's so many powerful things to what you were saying. But what I love, generally speaking, is the simplicity of it, right? It takes practice. It's not something that's going to, you know, like, be like a switch that we flip, right? This is something like you said. We've got to build new neural pathways. Our wiring is pretty, pretty deep at this point. But any of us can do this, and I think that it's, it's so helpful to have ways to tackle this that feel accessible to us in the busyness of our lives and the overwhelm that we're all feeling. Right?

Jenn Donahue

Oh, absolutely. All of the exercises that I talk about take five minutes or less per day. That's it. You know, you can do that anytime between meetings, first thing in the morning, end of your day, whatever time that like works for you. I was gonna say while you're sitting in the bathroom, but if you have lots of people in the house, that's probably not appropriate, but, but it's one of those things where it's like, I want to try to make things as accessible as possible. And it's like, if you can do the smallest thing, if you can do it repetitively, guess what it sticks? That's what it's really all about.

Kim Meninger

And I'm glad you said that, because repetition is key. I think sometimes we either give up too soon, or we do it inconsistently, and then we wonder why it's not working. And it really is about being consistent and repeating it over an extended period of time, right?

Jenn Donahue

And I find that if you try to do too much too soon, I keep burnout. You just burn out. It's just like, Okay, it's not working. There's too much, it's too heavy. Just do something small, something small each day.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, in your one win a day is a great place to start. That's, that's very similar to a practice that I recommend too, for exactly the same reason. I think of it as like the gratitude journal concept, right on what you're grateful for, and that trains your brain, right? So naturally, what you're saying is it makes perfect sense for our confidence too, is we just start to see ourselves differently and and speaking of the brain, I often talk about that negativity bias that we have that's kind of built into us to keep us alive, but the unfortunate byproduct of that is that we're so aware of all of our mistakes and all of our perceived flaws, that we cruise right past all the good stuff, and then we get to our next destination, and think it's a fluke. How did I get here?

Jenn Donahue

And that's something that I also ask people to do. It's like, it's one of the other exercises, but it's like, I want you to sit down, take five minutes and write down your biggest accolades, like, I don't care if you won the fourth-grade spelling bee. Cool, you know, write it down and write down all these different things that you've done. And what happens is that whenever you actually write it down, if you tactically write it, your brain sees it. And I know this sounds silly, but you actually see your brain realizes it, and it goes through a whole different system, and you start to believe more of what you've written. And if you do this over and over again, it's like, hey, you know what? I have done this. I can do this. And I think that's what's really important. Is like, whenever we write things down, it basically triggers different types of coding within our brain, and that's also what helps change things for the better.

Kim Meninger

Yes, I think you're absolutely right. There's a difference between thinking it and writing it and reading it right. Having it external to you feels like truth.

Jenn Donahue

It does. It really does. You're like, oh, yeah, oh, I did that, you know.

Kim Meninger

Yes. Oh, that's such a great practice, too. I wonder, because you've obviously come a long way, right? You've been through a lot, you've had a lot of twists and turns in your career. I'm sure, as you think back, is there anything else that you think you would have done differently? Obviously, you would have used your model, I'm sure. But anything else that you, you would have done or thought about differently in hindsight that you would recommend to people listening?

Jenn Donahue

I think the one that I probably figured out a little bit later than I should have, is figure out what you love. Figure out what you love. I was in a job for a little while, and I was making good money. It was great, but I just had this person that I worked with who made me so incredibly miserable. And it wasn't just me. He made everybody miserable, but I had to work directly with him. And, I mean, it was like his job every day to make me the most miserable person I could be. I would drive home for 45 minutes. I would get home and my husband would literally hold a glass of wine outside the door and say, drink this before you come inside, you know? And it's like it was just, just because I was just so miserable, even after, you know, a nice, long drive, find what you love. Don't stay somewhere that, you know, even, even if the bunny is good, you know what? Go find something else. Go find something that you love, and you know, it'll take care of itself. It really will, because you'll be happier. You'll be a better person because of it. And, yeah, that's scary, that's, that's, it's terrifying, you know, to leave something that's comfortable, but if you just take the opportunity to go find what you love, it makes a difference.

Kim Meninger

It really does. And I don't think we realize how much. Friction there is in our lives because we are in a situation that's just not working right. Like you said, it could be a difficult relationship in our workplace, or it could be that we're doing work that doesn't bring us a sense of meaning, or we've outgrown it, or, you know, we don't feel like we're respected by our leader. It could be any number of things, but there's added energy that goes into having to navigate those types of situations that could be channeled in so many different better directions in our lives.

Jenn Donahue

Oh, yeah. And then even if you do get to a hard point whenever you're in that thing that you love, like, trying to figure it out is actually more enjoyable, as opposed to, if you're in that you know, horrible place, and you, you know, have to overcome something, man, that's like, even monumentally harder, because whenever you're doing something that you love, you're like, I want to keep doing it, and you figure out a way. Yes.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, absolutely. And I curious. Speaking of things that you love, do you miss engineering? You mentioned being retired. Do you still do anything engineering related?

Jenn Donahue

I am on a couple of boards. For instance, I'm on a Dam Safety Advisory Board. I'm on another board that has to do with a nuclear power plant. And so I'm still doing things like that, but otherwise I I really enjoy going out and speaking to people. I honestly believe I was put on this planet to help as many people as I can. And so this is this is my this is what I love, and I'm going out and I'm doing it, and I'm excited about it. So yes, I am. I do miss the engineering. I'm a nerd. I will always love engineering. It's like a drug, you know, you can't really get rid of it, you know? It's just like, Oh, I love that, ooh, differential equations, awesome, you know? So I love them now. But, yeah, it's a that's a part of me that will probably never go away, and I will always keep that going on, just to activate that side of the brain.

Kim Meninger

That sounds like a really great combination, right? That you get to stay on those boards still, you know, keep a toe in that, or maybe even more, like a whole foot or leg, right? But also get to do this mission driven work that is so meaningful to you. And I think that that's also another example of how we can incorporate different interests and different aspects of ourselves into our lives, that it's not all or nothing.

Jenn Donahue

Oh, absolutely. And you can, you know, I'm a big fan of like, Hey, man, here's all the places where I screwed up. I'll just tell you. And here, don't do what I do. Do that. Like, here, do this instead. So, so that's what you know, most of my, my keynotes and workshops and things like that are all about, is like, here's how you screw things up, but don't do that. Do this instead. It's a lot of fun and it's very self-deprecating, but it's fun at the same time. And you know, it's actually really fun to talk to engineers, because, like, I got street cred with them, and, you know, they're usually, like, really quiet, and it's like, hey, it's cool, man, we can all, like, talk about our feelings, you know. So they're, they're always, I just talked to them, like, two weeks ago, so, yeah, they're tough, but they're cool. They're still cool. They're still my peeps.

Kim Meninger

Oh, I love it. That's so great. And thank you so much, Jenn for being here. I want to make sure that we let the audience know how they can stay connected to you, how they can find out more about your work, your book. Where can people find you if they want to know more?

Jenn Donahue

One of the great places is you go to LinkedIn. I'm Jenn Donahue, PhD, PE. But also, if you go to the warrior framework dot com, that's where you'll find the book. But also, right now, I am giving away the workbook, the companion workbook, for free. So if you, if you buy the book, you just go through, you fill up this little sheet, and then I will automatically email you the workbook that goes along with the book, and you also get the first two chapters ahead of time so that you can kind of work through those on the workbook. But yeah, it's all free whenever you order the book.

Kim Meninger

Wonderful. Well, I will make sure that those links are in the show notes. And thank you again for being here and for your service and for all that you're doing for us today.

Jenn Donahue

Well, thank you. No, it's been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, and can I just say thank you for what you do? Like this is really important, the podcast and getting out and helping all of these people who are listening. So please keep doing what you're doing. It's important. Thank you.