Communicating More Clearly at Work

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about improving communication. My guest this week is Yosi Kossowsky, a leadership coach whose journey from engineering and technology to emotional wellness and behavioral neuroscience reshaped not only his career but his relationships, communication and impact as a leader.

Yosi shares how early feedback about his leadership style forced him to confront a gap many high performers experience but struggle to name. While his technical abilities came easily, leading people exposed blind spots around self-awareness, emotional regulation and perception. Rather than dismissing that feedback, Yosi leaned into it, eventually immersing himself in emotional wellness therapy, behavioral neuroscience and leadership coaching.

In our conversation, we talk about why communication breaks down even when we believe we are being clear, how our brains filter meaning based on past experience and why confirmation, not assumption, is one of the most powerful leadership tools available. Yosi offers a simple yet underused practice that can dramatically reduce misunderstanding, rework and frustration at work.

We also explore why resistance to self-reflection remains strong, how stress and cultural division have intensified defensiveness in the workplace and why emotional education remains largely absent from how we develop leaders. Yosi offers practical ways to experiment with new communication behaviors without feeling awkward or confrontational. And he shares why treating leadership growth as a series of small experiments creates lasting change.

About My Guest

Yosi Kossowsky is a seasoned executive coach with over 18 years of experience and a background as a Chief Technology Officer and Senior Director of Talent Management. Yosi specializes in leadership development, personal growth, and effective communication, leveraging neuroscience and organizational development principles. He’s helped leaders across the globe navigate complex challenges, build high-performing teams, and drive meaningful change. Get ready to learn actionable strategies to enhance your leadership skills and foster a culture of trust and collaboration.

~

Connect with Yosi:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ykossowsky/

~

Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:

Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.

Learn more about the Leading Humans discussion group

Join the Slack channel to learn from, connect with and support other professionals.

Join the Facebook group.

Schedule time to speak with Kim Meninger directly about your questions/challenges.

Connect on LinkedIn

Websites: https://kimmeninger.com

Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Yossi, it's so great to meet you and have you here today. I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Yosi Kossowsky

Thank you, Kim, really happy to be here. So today I work in the leadership development space, but a lot of people call a leadership coach, and that means that I will work with people who are in some sort of business world setting and trying to get something done, whether or not they have direct reports or not, it's that they are trying to lead themselves and finding that the skills that they bring to the table aren't enough to get the results that they want, and therefore they want to augment their skills and or be exposed to different techniques, different methodologies of get the ways to get things done, to accomplish things. And very often we find in those conversations that there's mindsets involved, like, it's not only like a skill set, like, but even though there's this terminology of soft skill sets, which are our human skill sets, which are really the harder ones, I think it's not always a soft skill set, like I can be a better communicator. Sure, a lot of times it's other things as well, such as the belief systems that I'm carrying around, what I my level of confidence, of self-assuredness, of how I read the room or don't read the room effectively, you how I, you know, interpret others effectively or not effectively, but it's ultimately, am I feeling like I'm getting what I'm working to achieve, or do I feel like I'm hitting some roadblocks or road bumps? Or am I even getting feedback that, hey, you know you could go further if you could be improving. You know, your this or that. So, so that's what I do. I work with one-on-one. I work with groups. I do training sessions, I facilitate meetings and off-sites and things of that nature. Pretty much. I think it's bread and butter for anybody who's doing this same thing I'm doing, and there's a lot of us out there. So I think that the things that make each person different is, first of all, everyone is different, but part of that comes to my background. So I started off my career in the early 90s, in it when it was very new, and I had this opportunity to work with a vendor who was installing a network at a company, and it was my first kind of, like real interaction with something beyond just a personal computer. Like in school, we had a radio shack. I don't know if you remember those computer with a little tape cassette that you know, it was very slow. So this was my first real and I just fell in love. It all made sense to me. And so I spent the next 10 years or so just working my way through the different parts of that work. Started off at help desk, and then setting up networks, and then working in a more managerial role in larger scale. And then, you know, things started about data security started even in early 2000s I got a little bit bored, and I tried a sales role, specifically a technical sales role, so not going out and finding customers, but once the sales team had found customers for me to go and talk to them about the technical opportunities of what was being sold. And that ended abruptly when the market crashed in 2002 and then I landed a job as something called a system engineer. And then I was working for a company that built technologies for cable and satellite broadcasters. And my job, essentially was to work with customers, find out what they wanted in their system, and then go to site and build that, what's called a big head-end program. It keep it updated, troubleshoot, and so if anyone you know you or your listeners, has cable or satellite television, you have a box in the house called the set-top box, and you open it up, and there's an online TV Guide, and then you get your shows. And so that's all the stuff that we built, and the market that I was serving was the Asia market. And so I spent a lot of time in India, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, Malaysia, but also was supporting customers in Europe and around 2005 I started getting some feedback as I started looking for more opportunities to take on more people responsibilities that I actually wasn't so good at my Soft Skills, as we call them, and I was a little demanding, a little, you know, controlling, lack of some patience, lack of awareness and stuff. And so when I got this feedback, I was kind of thrown, because I had read a number of books on leadership, I had taken one or two workshops on leadership skills, and I'm like, okay, you know, I know how to listen, I know how to talk nicely, I know how to kind of like, read the room, but I clearly didn't. And in the technology world, things just came to me very naturally, like I didn't really have to struggle beyond watching somebody else or reading a manual or something to do. But when it came to the people stuff, I'm like, okay, that's not that straightforward, and I have no idea how I'm going to bridge this gap. And so, on a personal note, I have been dealing with autoimmune issues, if you know what those are, for, my whole life. And so in early 2000s my wife had convinced me to look at alternative medicine, as they call it, naturopath and stuff. And so I had connections into this very non-engineering world for this. And when I when I came across this problem, I happened to mention it to a colleague in that area, and he recommended that I take this workshop on emotional wellness therapy. And I'm like, okay, you know, I'm completely open, like, I have no idea. And so it was a three-day intensive, and I remember my first day, the first half of the day, the teachers teaching about, you know, self-awareness, and how you deepen your self-awareness. I'm like, Okay, I heard all that before, good, all great. And in the afternoon was like, you would break out into pairs and do these questions with each other, and to try and like, you know, go deeper. And I'm noticing that, you know, it's like, kind of like a quiet room where people are whispering kind of to each other, and I'm noticing that people are emoting, and I'm like, This is so weird. Like, what? What is going on here? And, like, there's nothing in here that's like, bringing up emotion for me. Anyway, as we were leaving the end of the first day, it occurred to me that I was the weird one they were all doing this, and I was the one who was like, outside, and I'm like, oh, maybe this is the thing that I'm missing. So that really struck a chord, and I ended up dedicating the next five years of my life, every vacation moment that I had, to studying emotional wellness therapy, and ultimately became a certified therapist. And it changed my life. It changed everything. I learned about emotions, I learned about myself. I learned about where, where you know what triggers me and why I'm getting triggered and limiting beliefs and limiting ideas. I learned how to relate to others much better and be able to be in the space of strong emotions from others, I became a nice guy because I really was a jerk. I really was Kim I, you know, I was a jerk, and it so much so that my kids were young at the time, and they thought an alien had taken over their father. Because I was nice all of a sudden, like I wasn't abusive in any way that, as far as I know. But I, I, I, you know, I was carrying around a lot of baggage, emotional baggage, and, and I would dump it on them all the time unknowingly. And not be curious, not be patient, not trying to understand things from their point of view, you know, sure that they didn't know anything. And I was the Father, and needed to tell them how to live life, and all of that, and, and it changed my life at work and how I related and understood people. Along the way, the geek in me became very curious about the brain and also wanting to understand like, you know, let's say I'm going to go, Okay, I'm going to get off of sugar for, you know, in eating change to be healthier and make the decision good done. But then I'm in the store and I'm walking by the chocolate and I'm like, Oh, it's okay. I'll just take this bar. It's not, that's not. And I'm like, What is wrong with this system here? Why is it that this very intelligent brain cannot control the rest of the body like what is wrong? And so another person directed me to a course on behavioral neuroscience. And again, it wasn't in itself significantly life-changing more. It was an additive life change of understanding, what is the role of the Brain. How do the brain process thought and emotions? What is the role of all the different chemicals, dopamine, serotonin, etc, on the body? How do we get a thriving brain, meaning growth factors and neuroplasticity and, and it really taught me, ultimately, a lot about human perception. And so I find myself in 2010 finishing these certifications, still working as an engineer, and I'm like, Okay, I see so much dysfunction at work, people who are like, trying to fit and mold themselves into what they think that the office needs, or the manager needs or whatever. And there's so much like stress and anxiety going on, and nobody has the tools to live differently, but now I do. And so I said, you know, I'm just going to help people on the side. And HR came to me and they said, no, no, no, no, you're an engineer. Stay in your lane. And we came to an agreement that if I got certified as a coach, then I could be available for people. So this was really the first time I had heard about coaching. I didn't other know than sports coaching. I didn't know what coaching was, but I went ahead and I got certified, what ended up being my first coaching certification, which completed in 2012 completed in 2012 and then I was happy, yeah, that was, you know, that was it. A year and a half later, the company I was in got acquired by a much larger company called Cisco, and the, the cultural, human onboarding process was very tough for us. The acquired employees, we didn't understand why Cisco was acquiring us, and the leadership of the company I was in. Didn't really know what to do when it ended up being that we were kind of like a command and control company, but in a nice, really gentle, soft way, and when the CEO was moved out, as companies tend to do sometimes, when they get acquired, our leadership also just kind of like shut down. And so we're all kind of walking around with, like, Chicken Little The sky is falling mindset. And my wife says to me, a couple of months in, she goes, you know, you've got tools for this now. And I'm like, oh, you know, I do have tools for this now. And so I, I went and I Googled, what's a coaching plan for leaders? Because I had no idea. And I found something, and I copied it, and then I went in, presented it to the leadership and said, You know, I can do this coaching for you guys. And they're like, Okay, so of the 15 execs that I proposed, 13 signed up, and, you know, and the senior person said, I'll give you time away from your engineering to do this. And about two and a half months later, eight of them said, this has been transformational. And it was the first time that I'm like, Oh, this is real. Like, this is more than I'm just helping people. I could do something here, and then I had also created a program for the employees, for the individual contributors, on helping them also go through this emotional process of entering the larger company. And HR came to me and they said, Would you be willing to do this as a full time role? And I'm like, Sure. And so that ended my engineering career, and I joked hello to human engineering and, and that's what started it. And then so for the first two, well, really for the next six years, I spent a lot of time away from home, unfortunately, in you know, West East Coast, East Coast, Canada, England, France, Germany, Israel, India, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, working also with A lot of leaders in Sydney and Perth and helping leaders and teams become more effective. Go through change, communication skills, effectiveness skills. And the thing that I also gained in that time was a deeper awareness of the role of culture and gender on all of these how do we communicate? How do we interact? How do we deal with conflict, how do we deal with navigating negotiations. And it was kind of like a playground for me to learn, because Cisco also was willing to help me to get additional training and certification. So I got additional certifications and training on change management and human systems dynamics and other things like that, on really helping people, and whether you're an individual contributor or whether you're a team leader or an executive C-suite person be more effective in what you do. And so I left Cisco at the end of 2020 briefly decided to try to take a stab at HR, which didn't fit. And then I got offered a rollback in technology as a Chief Technology Officer. And I jumped at that opportunity, but quickly discovered that I wasn't really loving what I thought I was going to love being at that level, I got a lot of experience, but I really missed supporting leaders on this at the coaching level, and so I quit, and for the last couple of years, I've been doing this full time.

Kim Meninger

Wow, such a fascinating journey, and I'm so I mean, I think what strikes me is the fact that you were given this feedback, right, that you have this sort of missing piece, and you really took it to heart, and when you realized in the moment that you described where you were the weird one, you leaned into that, instead of saying, This isn't for me and right, like there were so many moments along the path that you described where I can imagine you taking an off ramp, but you didn't. And I wonder, you know, as you think about people like you in the before, what's the, what's the conversation with them that helps them understand why this is worthwhile while why this is meaningful, what the, what the opportunity is here? Because I can imagine a lot of people getting similar feedback and not responding the way that you did?

Yosi Kossowsky

Yeah, so I'm just gonna give you a little bit of insight into what I think played a role in my response to this. When I was about to enter third grade, I got pulled out, or I never went into third grade in the school that I had been in for first grade and second grade in kindergarten. Instead, somewhere in the summer, I don't remember the details, you know, whatever I was eight years old, whatever started going to doctors, and the message that I kind of, like my eight-year-old picked up was that I was retarded. And, you know, they, I think they must be. Maybe they use words like learning disabilities or whatever, but, you know, like, what did I understand? And then I, you know, I got put into another school, and all of the kids in the neighborhood who I was going to school with, then start teasing me and making fun of me and, and so I, I had a lot of baggage. One of the maybe silver linings of that baggage, as I've come to look at it, is that I never assumed that I was right. I never assumed that I knew it or understood it, and therefore I always leaned into feedback as something that I was going to be the odd one out. To answer your question about, How do I help leaders is I usually start off with a question, which is, you ask people to do work for you, or you ask people to do something for you. How often do you get back what you want the very first time? So we've talked about it. I've asked you to do it. You've said, Yes, I describe it to you. You say, I got it, and then I get back. And I'm like, no. How often does that happen? On average, 10%, 20, 40, 50, 80% how often do you get back what you want the first time? And the average answer is somewhere below 50% and I'm like, What would change for you if you could get that number to 80% would that be valuable? And they're like, yes. I'm like, Well, I think I can get you 80% but it's going to take some change in what you do today, because, as the Einstein quote says, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. So that's normally. That's what's been working for me so far, is, is that type of example where I did now I do interesting. I've coached with a lot of different people, not just engineering or data-driven logical Vulcan-like people. And still, I always start off with the science, the neuroscience of perception, because to. Mean, that's the foundational mistake that we all make, which is, do you think, Kim, that in your circle of people, anybody else interprets and understands the world exactly the same way that you do? Oh, of course not. Why? Why? Why is that? No, seriously, why? Why is that? Why? Why is that?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I mean, I think we all have different contexts, different brains, different ways of viewing the world based on our own experiences.

Yosi Kossowsky

Okay, so next question is, well, if you, if you, if that's true, which I believe it to be true, then do you think that anybody else hears you the same way that you hear others? (Hmm. No.) Okay, so you're having a conversation with somebody. How do you know at the end of the conversation what they actually heard and understood from you, or vice versa?

Kim Meninger

You have to clarify, right? Like you have to confirm.

Yosi Kossowsky

How do you do that?

Kim Meninger 

Asking, what's that look like?

Yosi Kossowsky

Yeah. Asking, what?

Kim Meninger

To talk about it. What did you hear? What are you taking away from this?

Yosi Kossowsky

Right. Now, how often in an environment do we say, “Okay, any questions?” And it was like, no questions, all right? And we're like, check, everybody understands me, until I don't get back what I want. So what's funny is, is that again, some people think, oh, yeah, some people understand the world the same way I do. And I'm like, Okay, do you have a partner at home? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, How long have you had that partnership? And they're like, oh, 10 years. I'm like, You guys are disagreements or misunderstandings. They're like, yeah. I'm like, how's that happen 10 years? Like, what you guys aren't in sync already? And they're like, oh, that's what you mean. I'm like, yeah. Like, so what's amazing is that this, like, leap from Oh, I get it that maybe you don't hear me the way that I think you do. To the confirming step is a massive space where people are like, I hear I know that I can do that, and maybe it would be good for me to do that, to make sure that I'm understood, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not like I'm not going to ask you the end of every conversation, Kim, what did you hear? And therefore, the misunderstandings continue not, not because you or I are stupid or we're not listening, or any of those, but simply because our brains, like you said, we all have had our different experiences, and they've all informed us everything. Yeah, and if we can't solve for that baseline, that what we call communication is actually one-way shouting, how am I ever going to get on the same page as anybody else?

Kim Meninger

So let me ask you a question about that, because when you say, people say, I'm not going to do that, I imagine there's a number of reasons for that. And like some people might think it sounds condescending, right? Something, I think it sounds confrontational. Some people may say, I don't have time for that, right? Like, that's what do you think helps people overcome that resistance? Like, what's the what? What is the, the path forward for people who get what you're saying, recognize the value of it, but just can't imagine themselves doing it.

Yosi Kossowsky

So the first thing is, I introduce it, the idea, as experiments. So experiments means there's no failure, there's just learning. Next piece is try it once, try it once, and see the result. Now, let's understand the discomfort. So this is a two-sided thing, right? So let's say you're talking to me. I could say at the end proactively, Hey, Kim, this is just my takeaways from what you said. So I asked you about how comfortable are they with that side? And they're like, Oh yeah, I'm good with that. I could do that. I'm like, Okay, start there. Now your job is repeat back what you heard, and then notice, pay special attention. Question, if the other person says anything different, meaning, if they come back and say, Yeah, but you've got this, or let me clarify that, or anything, if there's any adaptation to what you repeated, that's a win. That's a notification that that step just saved you time in the future from getting back to that person something that they didn't really want. Now the other side, right, which is when you're the speaker asking. So people are like, you're like, condescending, uncomfortable. I'm like, okay, so how about you take the onus of responsibility on you? You say I am having a coach, and my coach has asked me to do this to see, you know, to test out how clear I am, or if you don't want to mention the coach, hey, I'm decided that I'm going to work on my communication skills a little bit, right? And you can give people a heads up. Say, Hey, I just want you to know at the end of conversation, I'm gonna ask you to just to, you know, do a quick repeat, only because I'm working on mine, whatever. Once you kind of like, take the onus on you when you set it up. So far, no one's come back to me and said that they had a bad reaction when they asked with the setup.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I love the idea of treating it like an experiment, which takes some of the pressure off, and then also providing context for what you're doing. Because I always think about when you're trying to change in the same situation, in the same environment, right? You're, you're, you're working with the same people that you're, you're still with the same partner. People are reading into your behavior changes and wondering what's going on here, right? Is this about me? Right? And so giving them an explanation for what you're doing helps you and them feel more comfortable.

Yosi Kossowsky

Oh, yeah, critical. That's a critical piece, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know it's, it's another whole topic, but the amount of assumptions we make about other people is funny, and then how it dictates our behaviors following that.

Kim Meninger

I'm curious, because there, there is a there is a population of people who already have this self-awareness and are driven to make the types of improvements that you're talking about. And there's another population of people who could really benefit from it, but either aren't motivated or don't see it. They're not making the time for it. Do you find that things are changing at all? Like I've been wondering ever since the pandemic and we started talking more about the importance of empathy and changes in leadership, if that is having a meaningful effect on who is volunteering to do the work. Or do you still find that there's a there are, like strong pockets of resistance to what you talk about?

Yosi Kossowsky

I haven't found that that, that the pandemic has changed anything on that. I actually think it's gotten worse. You know, the I'm not political, I'm not at all. And at the same time, maybe it's just my age, I really feel that we have become so much more divisive as a culture than I could ever remember and, and so I'm like, I'm curious. Like, how did we get to this place where I can't talk to people who don't share my exact belief system or value system? That's not how I grew up. That's not how my parents taught me, like, where did this happen? And in that sense, I think we've kind of like hunkered down into our corners of if it's out of my comfort zone, it's not safe and it this is one of these areas of if I'm not doing a good job, then am I willing to take a look internally and say, Okay, maybe there's, maybe there's something for me to do, or am I going to look at everybody else and blame everybody else for my situation? And so I don't, I don't know the numbers or how to measure it, but I find that there are a group of people that are very interested. Normally, it comes from I. Feedback that people get that, not that they're in trouble in any way, but like, if you could do this better, you have more opportunities ahead of you, type of thing. And they're like, Okay, now, how do I do that? How do I get that? And so either the companies or HR will bring you know people to coaching, or introduce them to coaching, or people will seek me out, or seek other coaches out, you know, from LinkedIn or something. But I don't actually think that we become more open to our differences. I think unfortunately, we become more closed.

Kim Meninger

That's been my experience as well. I think that the way that I have interpreted it is certainly the political climate has created these very entrenched divisions within our population. And then I also think that people are just fundamentally under more stress in life and at work, like there's just more higher expectations, more responsibility, just so many different things going on that, going back to some of your earlier points around neuroscience and emotional well-being, I just don't know that we as society value wellness and taking care of ourselves in that way, and we don't recognize the threats to our to our mental and physical health that we expose ourselves to in the ways that we work and live today.

Yosi Kossowsky

It's definitely different. And you know, I sometimes have these moments of reflection, you know, growing up, and my parents, like you kids this generation. You listen to such noise and, and, and thinking about, you know, my kids and grandkids and, and that, and I realize that that's, you know, maybe I'm in the same space my grandparents were when they were saying that to me. Now I'm there, and I'm like, Okay, I don't get it. The, the sheer amount of information available to us today through social media or whatever is, is inundating. And I don't think that there's any less authenticity than there was. The difference is access. Now everybody can post every thought, every idea, and you listen to it, and we it is. It's very hard to unknow what we think we know. So once an idea has been presented to me, it takes a lot of effort for me to challenge my own thoughts and my own assumptions, and I have to be willing to do that when we were younger and we had less information coming our way. So our ability to, I think, filter and navigate, was just less cognitive load like and so I do agree and, and, you know, I don't know for sure. It seems to me, from the articles I read that in terms of, like exercise and meditation things and yoga things, those are more widely recognized than ever before. And there's great, you know, memberships and people doing that, what I think that hasn't made tremendous foothold is emotional education. Nowhere in any school that I've ever heard is our teachers teaching kids how to feel, how to process what they feel, how to Well, first recognize what they feel, then process what they feel and, and learn that muscle so that as we get older, we don't have to treat feeling hurt or fear or whatever discomfort it is as a threat, all right, and that that's not a new challenge. I just think that because of the overload, our fear centers are just also overloaded and, and we still don't have the tools and the resources to do something about that. And was also become more widely available, or medications to, to, you know, tamper down everything. And so that's an easier fix than trying to deal with that is, I've got anxiety, so go get medication for anxiety. I've got fears. Go take it, you know, for that, rather than, let's learn some skills, yeah.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I think, you know, as a parent, my kids are 10 and 15 right now, that's something I'm incredibly mindful of, too, and they're both boys and so. And not always as, especially my older one, as receptive to these types of conversations, but I feel like they're listening somewhere. They're getting a little bit more than they would they weren't having the conversation. So it's worth just consistently talking about these things with them.

Yosi Kossowsky

Yeah. I mean, one of, one of the books that was very informative for me was a book called Mindsets by Carol Dweck. And a lot of times, especially in the working world, people have heard of this idea of fixed and growth mindset. They don't always know where it came from, but this is where it comes from. And one of the things that she exposes is that language that we use that we think may be supportive of a growth mindset actually is not so, for example, I know you can do this. Do you think that's a growth mindset statement or a fixed mindset statement?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, you would think it would be growth, but I think it's a fixed mindset.

Yosi Kossowsky

Yeah, it's a fixed mindset. Because anytime we can take the we can take the alternative of that, I know you can do it, but what if I don't? Helps instill a fixed mindset, whereas I'm with you, no matter what I trust you, no matter what I support you, no matter what is a growth mindset, I don't need you to be something, to be accepted. Just be you. And so I, you know, I think that there's a lot of these types of information that can help us, but it's not obvious, like when I first read that, I'm like, holy, I have been saying all the wrong things to my kids all these years. I Yeah, yeah, you know. And I don't have a time machine. I'm not sure. I really wish I did, but kind of wish and, and so, you know, all I can do is shift going forward.

Kim Meninger

But, yeah, you're right, and I think one of the things that has helped me, for better or worse, I don't, I'm not a psychologist, so I don't, I don't know if I'm making it worse, but one thing that has helped me is to go back to what we were talking about earlier, of giving an explanation is, I will periodically say to my kids, I'm not always getting my messaging right, but here's where I'm coming from, right. And so I try to let them know, like, what's at the heart of our feedback and like, what it is that is motivating us and, and really emphasizing that point of like, we love you, and you know we, we are with you no matter what. And so I'm hoping that that sticks, even if we don't get the day-to-day messaging perfectly right, that they understand the mission.

Yosi Kossowsky

So Kim, I want to give you a challenge. If you find an opportune, opportunity, I don't know how you say that better, to at some point, like, test with your kids, like, what are they hearing from you? That's great when I say, I love you. What do you hear? Oh, mom, right, but no. Like, saying, like, I'm really kind of curious. Like, I know for sure that in our conversation today, you have filtered what I have said in some way. I know it for sure. What I have no idea is how you filtered it. And so I have four kids, five, five grandkids now, and I play this game like, I like, I give them a, you know, a preamble, like, I'm just curious, and what did you hear? And again, I'm not testing for, like, okay, you know, 100% I like, there's no deliverables in the family, in the family, per se, but I'm just kind of curious, like there is filtering going on. It has to be. That's the way our brains work. So what? What is it that comes through?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, that's a great challenge. I'm definitely going to take that on, because I would love to hear what they have to say. Oh my gosh, this is such a great conversation. Yossi, I really I'm taking a lot from it personally, and I know others are as well. For people who want more of you and your work, where can they find you?

Yosi Kossowsky

Really, the best place is still LinkedIn. I haven't really put the effort towards my website, so LinkedIn is the place to go, and if you can put that link in the show notes, there's even a button on my LinkedIn page. You can book time with me. It costs nothing. I'm always happy to have that initial conversation with anybody.

Kim Meninger

So excellent. I will definitely put that in the show notes. And thanks again for being here. I really appreciate it.

Yosi Kossowsky

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for inviting me. I really have appreciated it as well.