Don’t Fear the Moment

In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about how to name, tame and reframe impostor syndrome. Does impostor syndrome keep you from asking for help, sharing your ideas or taking risks? If so, you’re not alone. Each of us has warring factions in our brains. There’s the intellectual side that knows that we’ll be okay if we step outside our comfort zones and then there’s the emotional side that lives in constant fear of something terrible happening. This week, I talk with John Little, an executive performance coach, about how to bridge the gap between these two sides. Here, John shares strategies and insights to help us manage impostor syndrome. In particular, he emphasizes how important it is for us to not fear the moment because when we fear a certain moment, we lose out on bigger growth opportunities. Lastly, we talk about how impostor syndrome impacts, not just individuals but organizations, and why we should be addressing this as a business issue.

About My Guest

John Little is an Executive Leadership Performance Coach with over 25 years of experience leading people and businesses across multiple industries. He specializes in helping CHROs, VPs of HR, and senior leaders support executives and high-potential individuals in excelling in their current roles, preparing for future leadership positions, and reducing costly turnover.

John’s coaching focuses on building trust, influence, and authority using his proprietary EMBRACE framework, empowering leaders to create meaningful impact and seize new opportunities. His clients often experience career growth 2-3x faster, improved team collaboration, and measurable improvements in employee engagement, retention, and leadership effectiveness.

Known for aligning leadership development with business goals, John equips his clients with mindset strategies and actionable tools that drive both personal and organizational transformation. Whether through one-on-one coaching, cohort-based learning, or organizational training, his approach is tailored to meet each client's unique needs.

John’s results are backed by award-winning outcomes, including enhanced emotional intelligence, communication, trust, and executive presence skills. With a 95% client satisfaction rate, he consistently delivers lasting change for leaders and their teams.

At the heart of John’s work is his passion for helping people overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome to become authentic, confident leaders in their families, careers, and communities.

“I help people find ways to live more inspiring, influential lives so they can become authentic, confident leaders by overcoming limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome.”

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Connect with John:

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/bigjohnlittle

Assessment: https://impostersyndromedetector.scoreapp.com

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Websites: https://kimmeninger.com

Transcript

Kim Meninger

John, welcome, John. It is so great to have you here today, and I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.

John Little

Thank you. Kim. John Little, I am an executive performance coach. I like to say that I help people find ways to become more confident, authentic leaders by overcoming the self-limiting beliefs that are created by imposter syndrome. So my kind of my tag on LinkedIn as the imposter syndrome Slayer, and I've had a career jungle gym to get me to the point where I have, and I'm sure we'll unpack some of those things, but kind of my through line from, you know, coming out of college and working in network television production to moving to banking, which I know is a weird shift, but it somehow worked, and then into consulting and working with a real estate firm, global real estate firm, and all of those connections that I had were leadership roles. And so I saw the impact of not only what imposter syndrome can create in people, but also the impacts that it can have. And the good thing is, I recognize, okay, this is something that I can help with, so that's why I'm excited to be here and have a conversation with you and, and, you know, just share anything that I can with your audience. Well, I

Kim Meninger

Well, I so appreciate your perspective, and I want to ask you, because you have taken so many twists and turns in your career. Often, those of us who support others around imposter syndrome have experienced it ourselves, and when you are making these kinds of dramatic shifts, that's prime territory for impostor syndrome. So how has your own experience bitten with impostor syndrome over the years?

John Little

I know it's funny, I'll tell you the times that it has cropped up the most is where I recognize that I can do something, but probably the, the last person in the room to try it. So for example, when I made that shift from working in, in the media and television production, I made a hard shift into, into banking and into the mortgage space. You know, there were a number of factors. I got tired of getting off work at three o'clock in the morning. I, you know, I got tired of having, you know, weekdays, you know, Monday and Tuesday off instead of weekends off. But that's the way that the industry was, and I was really, after 10 years, ready for something different. Timing was right. Opportunity was right. But stepping into a space where I had no experience before, but I knew that I would be able to be successful if I applied myself, I'd still didn't know people were talking about sometimes around the conference table, and I was scared to say, Okay, can you back up and explain what that means to me? I just thought that I had everything out by myself. That was where imposter syndrome, initially I started to recognize is not having that immediate urge to ask those questions that and feeling like I had to have all the answers, but at the same time knowing that I didn't and being willing to ask the questions, that's how I started to overcome it. You know, my dad always told me growing up, you know, if you don't ask, the answer is always no, and so he always encouraged me to ask questions. So I leaned into that in those times that imposter syndrome would creep in initially.

Kim Meninger

I try to say that to my kids too. I think it's such an important lesson, if you don't ask, the answer is always no, and what you're what you're sharing, is a very common experience among those of us who struggle with this, that we feel like we have to know everything, and that if we don't, that we're somehow exposing our incompetence or lack of preparedness, role that we're in, even though I think there's a part of us that intellectually recognizes, of course, you're not going to know everything. Of course, you're new to the role, and nobody else has that expectation but you. But those, those limiting beliefs can be really powerful, right?

John Little

Yeah, and you said the really important word there, and I share this a lot with, with my coaching clients, is we have to be mindful of the disconnect that happens sometimes subconsciously, between what we intellectually know and what we emotionally feel, and which is going to guide us in those moments. Is it what we intellectually know that it's okay to not know everything. It's okay to ask the questions. It's okay to raise our hand, it's okay to respectfully push back like intellectually, we know that those things probably have limited consequences, but our emotions, which are often driven by fear, our emotions, will tell us, well, if you ask that question, then that may change the perception of you. If you raise your hand and speak up, then what's the response that you're going to get, or how is that going to change how people see you? If you respectfully push back, is someone going to be offended? And how could that impact you? Right? And those are the things that cause us to not do those things. And here's the other funny thing, Kim, and I'm sure you know you're listening, are familiar with this, especially if they're high achievers. We got to a certain place by innovating, by taking the risk, by raising our hand and saying we want more, by stepping into spaces that we hadn't been to before. And eventually, we do that enough that we end up in a mid to senior-level leadership role, and then it's like, oh, this is everything that I asked for. And now what do I do? Here I am. The spotlight is on me, and so that's where those fears will, will crop back up. And it's, it's always interesting that high achievers are the ones that struggle with imposter syndrome the most, because they've, they've found success along the way, but they find themselves in place where they either they can't replicate it quickly, or they don't know how to take that next step. So the disconnect between intellectualizing and the emotional impact, it's so real, and that's one of the solutions that I help with it just really kind of like put turn shining the light on self-awareness. That's the first key, is recognizing when it pops up and it's like, okay, this is what that is. This is why I'm experiencing that, and then how do I navigate through it? And I want

Kim Meninger

And I want to spend a little bit more time on that, because I think that's such an important point, and I have found it really helpful. As somebody who has spent lots of time struggling with impostor syndrome throughout my career, is this really just fear, right? It's rooted in everything that you said. Is fear, fear that something bad is going to happen, and that those fears are, you know, sometimes entirely unfounded. Sometimes there is some amount of risk that we're taking, right? But, but I really talk a little bit more about your thoughts on bridging that gap between that intellectual understanding and that emotional feeling. Because when we're in it, it feels real, right? I mean, it's reality to us at that moment. So, so do you have thoughts on how to, how to, you know, sort of reconcile those two parts of our brain that are warring at the same time?

John Little

Yeah. And, you know, and anybody who is has either been coached by me or has been to one of my trainings or events. I know I'm corny, like dad jokes, left and right, but I will come up with a phrase that will help people, help them remind themselves of, of kind of what they can do in those moments. And so I use a phrase of name it, tame it, and reframe it. So name it is when you feel that emotion, when you feel that that tug of, should I do this? Or what happens if it is being aware of it, that's where the self-awareness piece comes in, and then naming it for what it is. It's like, okay, this is imposter syndrome in this moment, because intellectually, I know that there's not going to be a consequence for me raising this question, or for me pushing back, or for me taking a chance. I know intellectually, I know that things are going to be okay. So naming it that this is imposter syndrome, taming it is that second part of rationalizing. So what are going to be the outcomes. What's the potential upside? What's the potential downside, and then reframing it as this is an opportunity for me to learn more. This is an opportunity for me to show innovation. This is an opportunity for me to step out of my comfort zone. This is an opportunity for me to demonstrate my growth mindset. This is an opportunity for whatever fill in that blank is, but it's, it's, it's that it's naming it first recognizing it for what it is, and then recognize, okay, I don't have to be scared of this. I can see it. I can navigate through it. Let me strategize and these and these things can happen quickly in your mind. When you get that first part of, of naming things for what they are, then you can move through taming it and reframing it a lot faster, because you can then start to see what are the positive outcomes, what are the positive impacts, what are the positive things that can happen as I continue to move forward and move past the fear that may be holding me back.

Kim Meninger

And one of the things I love about that reframe is that high achievers love challenges, right? Like that's one of the sort of paradoxes of impostor syndrome. We don't want to stagnate. We want to continue to challenge ourselves, but we're also really afraid of taking risks, and so reframing it in that way of this is an opportunity for me can push us through that fear and connect us back to the that core value that we hold around growth and, and...

John Little

Yeah, and I'll give you a perfect example of kind of 222, stages of imposter syndrome, if you will, or two ways that that they may show up. So just last week, I had the opportunity to do a speaking event for a professional association. It was, it was virtual of training and development professionals. You know, that's a big part of my background, so at no point should I have felt nervous about doing a presentation. Yet, right before I'm sitting in my i. I'm getting ready and I'm thinking, I'm about to do a presentation for my peers, which is the most intimidating thing you can do, because everybody knows how your presentation should look, how you should start your presentation, how you should connect the dots, how you should end it. So that imposter syndrome creeped in, like, am I gonna, am I gonna do this? Am I gonna pull this off? Even though I've been doing this for more this for more than 25 years, that still just kind of happened in the moment. And again, I recognized it for what it was. I was able to identify why I was feeling that way. And I was like, this is it's going to be fine, and executed it with no issues. And the topic of that session was impostor syndrome, for those people who are looking for jobs. And so how that creeps in, and one of the things that we use that name attainment and reframe it for was around helping people identify what is their unique unfair advantage in the marketplace, and so looking at the skills that they have. And a lot of times, people who are looking for jobs, they're hammered with imposter syndrome because of the things that they have done throughout their career. It's taken them so long to either transition to a new job or get the job they're looking at because of the market and things like that, they start to doubt. You know, am I really capable? Can I really get a job in this market? Can I really get something that's going to help me move forward, help me pay for, you know, my mortgage, my car payment, help support my family. Like those questions that doubts really creep in, and imposter syndrome will stack on those and will, will cause people to double down. And so that's one of the exercises we did, was to name the imposter syndrome around people's skills and backgrounds and then tame it, of like, recognize that that you're not being held back by these things. These are things that we may need to reframe. And so let's look at the skills and the abilities that you have, and how do we reframe that? How do we restate it, either on LinkedIn or on your resume, to highlight your unique advantage and your unfair advantage? So like taking people through that process, they're able to see it in real time. And you know, the, the 12 or 13 people that were on the call, I got some really great feedback as to how they were doing that, and they're doing it immediately. So this doesn't have to be a long process, but it has to be an intentional process of reframe, reframing a lot of those thoughts.

Kim Meninger

And, I think that word intentional is so important in this conversation, because we are creatures of habit, and our thoughts are often habits, right? And so we fall into these traps, and especially when you're looking for a job, even it's an incredibly stressful, emotional time, and it's so easy to get sucked into that self-doubt. And so I think it's really important, like you said, to intentionally recognize where that's happening and to reframe that, because it unfortunately, it becomes a vicious cycle if you don't interrupt it, right? Because, if you're not believing in yourself, you're not coming across in your interviews as confident as you could, which can become a prophecy, right?

John Little

Absolutely, yes, and that's exactly where that session was born from. Was a close friend of mine who was going through that exact experience and had come off of an interview and realized that she just did not show up as her best self in that interview, and she said that her confidence had just been sapped by the job search. And so, you know, we started to have conversations about, so what's behind it? And impostor syndrome was one of the things that popped up right away. And she's like, I don't know that, that people appreciate and recognize the things that that I've done and how that can help them. I was like, so that's part of you. You know that those skills that you have when you get the opportunity, you're going to crush it because you've done it before that. You know that you have the tools to excel. You know all of those things intellectually, but the fear, the frustration, the angst, the anxiety, all the things that come with that job search, all of those are just fuel for impostor syndrome. So that's where we started to have that conversation about that her unfair advantage, and how we can start to pull those things out. And from that conversation, you know, she has pivoted a couple of times. She's changed the things, and now she's starting to thrive. And it's exciting to see it when it happens with people, because the I know I use the light bulb analogy, but that's really what it is, is when that light comes on, it's like, oh, now I can see things a lot more clearly.

Kim Meninger

Yeah. And I like that expression, unfair advantage, too. I think it applies to people who are looking for jobs, but also people in the workplace already, because our brains naturally go to what we don't know. And so we'll be sitting in meetings and thinking, Who am I to speak up right now, when I'm surrounded by all these smart people, and we're so tuned into all the ways in which we think we're not ready, but we don't laser focus, or we don't intentionally shift our attention to Yeah, but what makes me unique, or what do I have to offer? So that part is so critical to building our confidence and managing what the impostor syndrome we're talking about.

John Little

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things to remind yourself. It's I'm in this room for a reason, right? I didn't I wasn't just wandering down the hall and decided to walk in here, right? Like I'm in this room, especially if you're in that mid to senior level leadership role, and sometimes even C suite individuals will have some of these same questions and doubts and challenges, and it really is that's one of those first steps is recognizing, okay, I'm here for a reason, and what is it that I'm bringing? What is it that, that I uniquely bring, that I can add, or what can I learn and leverage? Right? There's a there's a model that I use for, for leaders, but it, it kind of applies to impostor syndrome too, which is trust, which leads to influence, then authority and opportunities. And kind of how that flow works is the, the foundation of everything is trust, trusting in yourself, trusting in others and having the tools to build trusting relationships so people can trust you, once you have that trust, once people have trust in you, then start to gain influence. I mean, which means that they start to want to ask you questions. They want to hear more from you. They want to give you opportunities to share, right? And again, these are things that can help someone overcome that impostor syndrome. Is they may feel as though they're stuck somewhere. And so building trust, building those relationships, giving you that comfort to be able to feel more risky, right to feel a little bit more vulnerable, because vulnerability and trust are certainly partners. Once you gained influence and people start to look for you, start to seek you out, start to listen to your opinions and your perspectives, then you can start to get authority. And authority is different from power. So authority really is when people start to invite you into the rooms, when people start to actively seek you out, for your for your feedback, for your perspectives, for things that, that you find valuable, or ways that you can add value. And then through those, then you get more opportunities and more opportunities to grow, more opportunities to shine, more opportunities for people to expose you to, to different new and different things, right? So that can be, again, one of the tools that people can use that they feel like that impostor syndrome is holding them back. The one of the first steps can be, let me try to find the relationships that I can lean into and build trust in those relationships. So through that trust, I'll have more trust in myself. I'll have more confidence those things. Once you start to, to project those outwardly, then that's where the influence will come. And with greater influence, again, that drops that, that, that wall down a little bit more, because then you see that people really want to hear from you, they want to engage with you, they want to listen to you. And then when authority comes is when they're actually coming to you proactively, right? And the impostor syndrome may creep up there again, because if you feel like people are now coming to you, it's like, oh, man, now I've gotta have all the answers, but it's okay. It's you've gotten there through that, that flow of trust and influence, and you've gotten the place where people are seeking you out. And those are those opportunities. So there's, there's so many different ways, and I'm throwing a ton at you here again.

Kim Meninger

I love it. I love that because I think that there is sometimes a tendency when we're doubting ourselves to want to hunker down or fly under the radar, right? It's a self-isolating experience, because you don't want to be vulnerable, because that's where worry comes in, that, Oh no, I'm going to reveal this deep, dark secret that I don't actually belong here, right? And so then it makes it that much harder, because we don't get the support that we need. We don't get access to the people whose expertise complements our own. And then it becomes, again, that vicious cycle, as opposed to like you're saying, be strategic about it, but lean into others, and you will start to build the trusted relationships. Reinforces your own trust. And I think that's just a really great way to think about it, and, and I'm a big believer, I'm sure you are too, in baby steps, right? We're not talking about diving into the deep end first thing. It's really about testing the waters a little bit, right? Taking some smaller risks first.

John Little

The baby steps and celebrating small victories, like those are. Those are so, so important to do once you start to recognize that. Again, impostor syndrome is one of the things that I need to be mindful of. I need to be intentional of, like we were talking about earlier, and just again, taking those baby steps, and if it's, if it's surviving the meeting and asking, like, the one question, and it's like, okay, this is all I can do today. That's fine, but that's, that's one thing more than you did yesterday. It's all about those incremental wins, because I'm a big believer that those things will continue to build momentum for you. And. And momentum and confidence build over time, and that's what will help you get past I don't think anybody ever fully conquers impos, impostor syndrome, because it's a mental function. It's something that happens subconsciously, but we can work to overcome it and minimize it through some of the intentional tools and processes that we put ourselves through.

Kim Meninger

I couldn’t agree more. And I think because of what you had said earlier, too, that once you reach that next level, it's probably going to creep up again. So we can it's episodic, right? I feel like it's not necessarily a chronic condition, but it definitely comes in in cycles, depending on where we are, and so that absolutely, you're absolutely right that if we learn to manage it, and it becomes less disruptive over time, it may never go away entirely, but at least we can recognize it more quickly, we can intervene more quickly and kind of keep it from getting too far out of control.

John Little

Absolutely, yeah, and you summed it up perfectly, that's exactly what it is. It's we the more that we're aware of it, the more we can recognize it when it comes and it's less debilitating for us when it happens.

Kim Meninger

Exactly. And I want to shift gears, or at least expand a little bit, because I know that you mentioned to me before we hit record, and something I think a lot about, too, is imposter syndrome doesn't just affect the individual, it also has an impact on the organization, and I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

John Little

Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny, because impostor syndrome, it isn't an individual. I don't want to use word diagnosis, because it's not a medical condition, but for, for the conversation's sake, I'll use that a lot of times. When we talk about impostor syndrome, we talk about it that somebody struggles with or is challenged by. And while that happens a lot of times, this happens to again, our high achievers, our leaders, people who are in those mid to senior leadership or level leadership roles where they have direct impacts upwardly and downwardly on a lot of business outcomes. And so impostor syndrome really is an organizational crisis. A lot of times at companies, because the leaders that are suffering from imposter syndrome are having significant impacts on their teams, and that impacts things like engagement. That impacts things like turnover, right? If you have a leader who is struggling with imposter syndrome and that can, you know that can lead to a number of behaviors. They could either be micromanaging because they are afraid to delegate. They could be acting out because they're overcompensating, so they lean into false bravado. So, like you know, they're completely unpredictable in their behavior, or they could be operating out of such fear that they're just toxic environments, right? When you have those things, I mean, those things impact engagement, they impact turnover, they impact productivity, they impact creativity and innovation, and sometimes they even impact like legal risk for companies, right? If you have a leader that's just for lack of a better term, just out there acting wild, you never know what HR may get an email or a phone call or a door knock or, you know, you never know what may what may happen where someone may end up taking legal action against the company and against the leader, right? So there, there's a lot of things that companies need to be mindful of as it relates to impostor syndrome and not just ignoring it. And that's there was a study in in 2019 in the UK about imposter syndrome and those downstream effects, you know, costing organizations millions of dollars every year because of all the things we talked about, turnover, low productivity, low engagement and legal risk, like those things are often rooted in leadership behaviors that have foundations and imposter syndrome and imposter syndrome Not being dealt with. And you know, tools, of course, leadership development, you know, emotional intelligence, tools, those are all things that are very valuable and helpful connecting the dots to what it is that's happening that's also significantly valuable from an organizational standpoint as well as individual standpoint.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I think that is so important, because we tend to think of this as, Oh well, it's an individual challenge that, you know, we need to address on our own, and oftentimes we don't want to talk about it publicly, because we don't want to it feels, it feels shameful in some way, right? And we also think we're the only ones who feel this way, so everybody else comes across as so confident and put together. But you're absolutely right, the ripple effect of one leader who struggles with this, and we know that it's far more than one leader, because there are lots of people struggle with this at any given time. So really is a business problem that needs to be addressed as such, because we. Can't even often measure the full impact of this experience on an organization.

John Little

Yeah, and unfortunately, a lot of times, what will happen is organizations end up treating symptoms and not call and not the cause. So they'll end up, you know, settling a bunch of lawsuits, they'll end up, you know, trying to figure out why they have so much turnover, but they don't connect the dots to what it is. So they try to implement new talent acquisition strategies or for engagement, you know, doing things like pizza parties and, you know, things that that that are surface, that are symptoms, but the true root and the true foundation of the issues is strengthening the confidence of the leaders and building that up. And a lot of times, it's tied to organizational culture, and it's tied to HR leaders that are really connected to the people in the company. And it's, you know, again, it's, it's something that once the, once the awareness is there, then it's often a short path to progress. But the awareness is, it's often the challenge. And Kim, exactly what you were saying, like, it's, it's seldom that a leader will, will walk into to their supervisors, Officer or, you know, reach out to HR and say, I'm suffering from or I'm struggling with imposter syndrome, right? Because that in itself, has some connotations, yes, but the awareness that we can have the confidence of taking that first step of saying, you know, hey, I would love to have some support in my role. I would love to have a little, you know, I would love to have that. That's often where coaching comes in. You know, a big role of coaching is just, it's not teaching someone how to do something new. Like, I tell people all the time, like, I can't tell you how to sell more widgets, but like, I can help your people be better leaders, right? That's, that's really what it is. It's, it's helping to round out that picture.

Kim Meninger

Yes, yeah. And I think that it's, it's critical, you know, as we think about, even think, like, broader themes these days, of inclusion and psychological safety, because I think a lot of it is rooted in that fear of, I can't, like you said before, I can't ask a question, or I can't challenge an idea. Sometimes it's in our minds, but sometimes it's in the environment itself. And if you've been, you know, quote, unquote, punished for challenging a leader, at some point you're not you're going to learn pretty quickly that that's not something that you're allowed to do, and if you've been humiliated for not having information that you are expected to have that compounds that self-doubt. And so when we talk about supporting leaders, we also have to think about, how do we make it safe for them to make mistakes and to learn right? And how do we offer support and encourage people to speak up and to share their ideas, as opposed to making that feel like they're doing something wrong? And so that's something that I think, or you know, you mentioned culture right? It really ties to an organization's culture and can have a huge impact on how people feel. Because impostor syndrome, like you said, it's not going away, but it can certainly get activated, or can get right, like reinforced or agitated a little bit more strongly in certain environments rather than others.

John Little

True, true. It's a great point, and in situations like that, there are often tools that we can work on to help people ease into some of those conversations, like if they if they feel as though that they have been, that they've been, been punished or judged for not knowing something before. And so that causes reluctance. So how do I then show that I do need to learn something, or that I want to learn something, or I don't fully understand right? If, and maybe that looks like you take an 80% solution to someone that can help you fill that other 20% so that way, at least you're going with something, and you're not just saying, I don't know how to do this, right? You show what you know, and then you let someone build on top of that. That's a lot less scary than going and saying, I don't know how to get to the finish line, because then someone can say, Do you know how to start? And that could just trigger my impostor syndrome and shut me right down. Right if I come with an 80% solution, or come with 80% of the work done, and say, I need, hey, I need help with this last 20% that's a little less intimidating. And if you still get a little bit of sting from that, then that's probably a culture issue. You. Yeah, yes, no. And there could be other conversations that need to be had about navigating that, or, you know, other conversations about your future that you may want to consider That's exactly right. You know, I don't do, I don't work with, with, with any federal judges. So I don't work with anybody who has a lifetime appointment to a role. So, you know, oftentimes those can be some of the conversations is, how do you find the best role for you, for you to be able to thrive, for you to be able to show that unfair advantage that you have? And really, how can you maximize the space that you're in while also looking for opportunities to grow?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, that's such an important point, too. I think sometimes we take more ownership than we need to of a particular situation. And my philosophy is that if you ask for help and something bad happens consistently, right, or you're putting your ideas out there and you're getting shut down, that's data, right? That's really important information to be factoring into your overall calculation of, as you said, is this an environment where I could be my best self and thrive? And so it's not always us. Sometimes it is the environment that we're in. And in that case, it's, it's helpful to think about, you know, maybe there's another option out there that would allow me to, to show up as more of myself and not have to deal with these environmental factors.

John Little

Yeah, but, you know, and kind of tying two things together, like, that's where, that's where the impostor syndrome can, can creep in from two places, right? If, if you had that experience, imposter syndrome. Can tell you that, oh, that's you, right, and you can internalize all of the organizational, cultural issues as I don't fit in, or that, that these things may be my fault. So turning on that self-awareness and being aware of who you are, being aware of what you bring, being aware of the things that are our triggers, being aware of things that are strengths and weaknesses, it allows you the perspective to kind of look outwardly as well and say, Oh, I'm seeing patterns of, of behavior that are not just connected to me, right? That may be emblematic of a cultural issue, that may be emblematic of something else, that a representative of something else, that that's not me, right? And so like recognizing the impostor syndrome could cause you to be super self-critical about things that you have actually no control over. That's one issue. And then again, how do you navigate past that, if it's if it is a cultural issue, how do you find your ways to, you know, get those little pockets of success that those little you know, nuggets that you need to move forward while also being mindful of everything else that's happening around you.

Kim Meninger

Yes, yeah. And I think that's important too, because it does fundamentally come down to what's within my control, right? And I think too, when I think about being in an environment where you've pretty much concluded this isn't the place where I'm going to stay long term. That actually becomes, I don't want to oversimplify. I know we live in a in a time where it can be harder than normal to find a job, but if you have already decided I'm not going to stick around here, it's a great place to practice building some of the muscles that we're talking about too, because what have you got to lose, right? And so, if you're, you know, if you're going to leave, build those skill sets so you can take them with you. And so, you know, maybe taking some of those risks a little bit more for, you know, intentionally, or stepping out of your comfort zone, a little bit more can be helpful to do in that environment, so that you're building a foundation that you could then take to the next one.

John Little

100%, 100% you know those? Those are those confidence-building steps that you need to take, and sometimes recalibrating the stakes is what's going to give you some of that? Com, when you we tend to, I say we, you know, just generally, professionals tend to think about moments being a bigger picture, bigger exposure, bigger thing than they sometimes truly are. Sometimes a moment is just a moment, right? And sometimes we need to step into those moments in order for us to gain what we need for that bigger picture. But we can fear that this moment is now going to define my entire career, my entire perception, my entire persona, my entire position. Like, we can, we can fear the moment so much that we miss opportunities. And that's what I don't want people to do. I don't, I don't, I don't want people to fear the moment. I want you to lean into those moments, because those are how you can get those, those building blocks to work through that imposter syndrome that you're experiencing.

Kim Meninger

Ah, I love that. I think that's such a powerful way to say. It, and probably a really great place for us to wrap up. I feel like I could talk to you all day. John, similar, for people who are listening, who want to learn more about you your work, where can they find you?

John Little

So I hang up primarily on, on LinkedIn. That's, that's really the, the main platform that I use. So, you know, linkedin.com/i, n slash, Big John Little is where you can find me. And I'm also, also launching an impostor syndrome assessment for, for leaders to get a sense of where are the particular areas that they may be struggling more with. And so that's going to be found at imposter syndrome detector, dot score app.com, and so I'm sure I'll, I'll be able to send that to you, and hopefully it can be in the show notes for people to click on and visit quick 15 question assessment, but it gives a really robust report of, of the areas that that there are opportunities for you to grow in your imposter syndrome, both as an individual, but it also looks at it through an organizational lens as well. So I'm really excited about that.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, that's excellent. We'll definitely link to that in the show notes. And thank you so much. Thank you for your work. Thank you for being here. It's been such a pleasure.

John Little

Likewise, Kim, thanks so much for the invitation. Appreciate the opportunity.