Finding Meaning in the Ordinary Moments
- Kim Meninger
- 1 hour ago
- 23 min read
In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about the ordinary moments that shape who we become and why so much of leadership, growth and human connection happens in the spaces we often overlook. My guest this week is Kurt Bush, leadership coach and co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group.
Kurt shares his nonlinear journey from manufacturing to ministry to leadership coaching and reflects on why growth often comes from embracing uncertainty rather than trying to control it. We explore the pressure leaders feel to always appear confident and capable, especially during times of rapid change and instability, and why so many people quietly carry overwhelm, anxiety and self-doubt while trying to support everyone around them.
In our conversation, we discuss the importance of self-awareness and how moments of regret, discomfort or emotional reaction can become opportunities for growth when approached with curiosity instead of shame. Kurt also shares practical ways leaders can reflect more intentionally on how they show up in everyday interactions and why empowered action matters more than perfection.
We also talk about burnout, hustle culture and the growing need for rest, reflection and joy in a world that constantly rewards productivity. Kurt shares his perspective on creating “counter systems” that help leaders stay grounded and emotionally healthy while supporting others through difficult challenges.
Finally, we explore the idea that most of life happens in ordinary moments and why those moments often offer the greatest opportunities for transformation, connection and meaningful impact.
About My Guest
Kurt Bush is a certified Internal Family Systems Practitioner, trauma-informed coach, and co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group. With a background spanning corporate leadership, pastoral ministry, and coaching, Kurt helps leaders break free from self-doubt, embrace authenticity, and lead with confidence. Having overcome his own struggles with imposter syndrome, Kurt is passionate about guiding others through transformational growth and into authentic leadership. Through Brimstone’s unique E + R = T approach (Encounter + Reflection = Transformation), Kurt equips individuals and teams to move from exhaustion and frustration to clarity and wholeness. He is also the co-author of “Live Fully. Lead Authentically. The Surprising Link Between Self-Awareness and Your Impact” in which he and his coaching partner explore leadership, personal growth, and breaking through barriers.
~
Connect with Kurt:
~
Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:
Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.
Learn more about the Leading Humans discussion group
Join the Slack channel to learn from, connect with and support other professionals.
Schedule time to speak with Kim Meninger directly about your questions/challenges.
Websites: https://kimmeninger.com
Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Kurt. It's so great to have you here. I'd love to start by asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, hey Kim, thanks for having me. It's just really great to be with you to have this conversation. We, we just had a little conversation that made me really excited to see where our worlds overlap, but yeah, I'm a leadership coach, I work with leaders of all kinds. We like to say in our coaching practice, everybody leads something. So, leaders of all kinds who feel like they are stuck or feel like they are leading in a way that's not authentically who they are, we help them kind of identify those and identify what authenticity means, and to take some steps forward. I have a background. I spent about 10 years in manufacturing. I led some people, I did some HR work. Then I went to seminary late in life, which is a huge win. If anybody's wanting to, like, go to grad school late in life, I don't know how to apply more sarcasm, but it was, it was a lot. So I went to seminary late in life. I pastored some churches for about 10 years, and then launched my coaching practice in 2024.
Kim Meninger
That is an interesting arc.
Kurt Bush
Interesting is a word. Interesting.
Kim Meninger
So, do you feel like you've connected all of the dots now that you're doing leadership coaching, did you know it's always interesting when you see people who take nonlinear career paths, how the zigs and zags come together?
Kurt Bush
That's.. I love the question, Kim. I don't know if I'm just like getting older, but I feel like I'm less willing to say I've connected all the dots, like I think I'm less willing at my age today to say, like, do I even know what all the dots are, you know, like I can look back, I do really enjoy looking back and seeing the journey and the transformation, and like the steps that have gotten me here, I think not to get all philosophical, I think there's part of me that's just like, man, I, I think I know the dots, but maybe I don't even know all the dots yet, maybe I'm going to find more dots. I certainly think there's more dots ahead of me, but you know, I think I find more dots looking back all the time.
Kim Meninger
I'm really glad you said that, because I think in the context of the bigger conversation that we're having around authentic leadership and you know just imposter syndrome and some, some of the anxiety that we carry around with us there is this implicit or explicit pressure to have all of this figured out, right? You know, we feel oftentimes we're comparing ourselves to others and thinking I'm behind or I should know this, and being able to say I don't know where my career is going, and that's okay.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, I have an acquaintance who was a physicist for years. He had a career change. He had this sort of like existential experience that led him down some faith-based pathways. And I sat around campfire with this person a number of years ago, and he was explaining all of his research that he'd done on the nature of light, and how light works, and how the natural world kind of interacts with light, and I'm like soaking this up like I'm a child, like he's this likewise uncle giving me all of this stuff, and I'm just soaking it up, and he ends the night, ends the conversation by saying, look, if anybody tells, and I'll PG this a little bit, he said, "Look, if anybody tells you they know crap about crap, they don't know crap about crap. And, and I tell myself that, like, one once a week, and it gets easier, I think, as I get older, but I think that it drives in me a curiosity of, like, do I have it figured out? Do I need to have it figured out? Do I need to have all the answer. Yeah, I think that, that posture of there's so much to know, even in my own self, my own journey, that learning never stops, right?
Kim Meninger
Yes, and I think those, the humility that comes with what you just said, the learning mindset is so helpful at a time when we really can't know.
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
I mean, especially when you look at the acceleration of AI. I mean, we can't even predict…
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
What our jobs are going to look like, what our lives are going to look like.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Kim Meninger
So, what are you seeing with some of the leaders that you're working with? What's feeling most challenging, or where are they, why are they coming to you? Let's say.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, Kim. You know, when we started, so I have a, I have a partner of business partner, he's one of my best friends, so I tend to say we and forget that I'm the only one on the screen, so when I say we, that's. I'm talking about, we, you know, when we started our coaching practice, like every coach, we thought, you know, like we can't wait to coach a bunch of CEOs, you know, in like major corporations, but what we found is like we get a lot of nonprofit leaders and entrepreneurs, and I think what we see that's common in all of them is they, they all feel overwhelmed, and they all feel overloaded, and they all feel alone, alone meaning they don't know where to go, you know. We have some major corporations that headquarter within 10 minutes of us here, where we are, and all of them have this sort of leadership development process that they've made and honed in over the years, but what we find is entrepreneurs and nonprofit leaders are just seeking some help, you know. Customers for entrepreneurs are getting, I mean, that climate is getting crazier all the time, expectations are just through the roof, and I think what we're seeing is small business owners are saying we don't know how to manage ourselves when all those expectations are going through the roof, and they don't know where to turn, so then that leads to feeling alone, and it just compounds all the problems. The same is true in the nonprofit world. Nonprofit world is crazy right now, with fundraising and division and polarization, and we find a similar thing where people just get caught up in the day to day, trying to survive, and then leadership development, or learning how to manage their own anxiety, or learning how to manage their own imposter syndrome, or whatever it is for them, or inner critic, those just get kind of pushed aside for the sake of fundraising, or volunteer drives, that's really what we're seeing, is our clients don't know where to turn, and we've, we've kind of been a, been a place to say, hey, let us help you a little bit. Our background is in some nonprofit work, and it just, it matches up really well.
Kim Meninger
I love what you're saying too, because I think that there is a way in which a lot of leaders feel like I need to be this resource to the people that I'm leading, so I can't afford to crack, right, like I, and I, and I do think that there is less support, even within traditional corporate structures these days.
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
There, even those aren't always effective too. And there's this feeling of I should be able to do this, or I need to, that I can do this, that I'm worthy of this role. That, yeah, and so any perceived like weakness feels like a character flaw instead of just it being like, hey, times are tough, and I just need some help.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, 100% I served under a lead pastor a number of years ago who would say, I just, I can't let people see me bleed, and I was, I was young, I hadn't done any self-awareness work, and I remember thinking that sounds really weak. I mean, I don't know if it's possible, number one, but it doesn't sound beneficial, and it sounds exhausting. And I can look back now, and I can see, like, that mentality of, like, I have to, if I'm a leader, I have to have all the answers. I can't hit pause, I can't reflect, I can't show any sort of doubt or weakness because I might lose the people that are following me. I think that's actually getting worse today. I do think, I mean, I'd be curious, what you would think about this. I love the leadership culture shift that's happening, that kind of puts self-awareness at a higher priority level, but, but I also think that idea of, like, I want my leader to know all the answers, and I want whoever's leading me to just tell me what to do. I think I think that is maybe increasing in an alarming way. I don't know. Do you, what would you say about that?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I agree with you, and you know it's interesting because we're at this moment where we really don't know, there are some people who are further along in the journey around AI and technology that may have more practical skills, but we really don't know what the future is going to look like, and as humans, that's just not a comfortable space to be. We want predictability, we want stability, we do not like the unknown, and so I agree with you. I think that there is a way in which everybody is demanding more leadership and wants more certainty and direction, and that puts a strain on leaders themselves, and if they don't have the, the resources or the courage to ask for the resources, right? Like, we're going to have a lot of people who are very burnt out, yeah, who, you know, and I talk to people a lot, as I'm sure you do too, who they try to plow through it and they end up in a mental health. Health crises, or in physical health crises, and it's, it's like they're, they're going to go, go, go, until their body says you're not going any further.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would affirm that. I see much of that in my work as well.
Kim Meninger
So, is there anything in particular that you think is a good starting point for people who may be listening and thinking I am that person.
Kurt Bush
Yes, yeah. So here's a practical starting point for any sort of self-awareness work, where maybe someone is just getting the feeling like I need to change something, I need to adjust how I kind of have a rhythm of leading. We like to invite people to kindly and gently, with no judgment, no evaluation of good or bad yet, to notice places where we feel regret or remorse, and those are big words. I maybe don't mean them as big as they come across, but, but I think about those places, maybe when I leave a meeting, and I think, you know, man, I wish I would have said that, or I wish I wouldn't have said that, or when I get an email that's difficult when I close my laptop instead of being curious about it, right? We invite people to just notice those moments and ask some pretty simple questions, like what happened, what did I do, what emotions were I feeling, and maybe what would I want to do differently next time, and I say gently, because I think our hope is that we would invite people to notice them as facts, not as, not as moments of shame or moments to be corrected just yet, but I think that is the most practical, like beginning step of self-awareness work that I can offer.
Kim Meninger
I love that, and I often think about that. Well, at least that the way that I interpret things like regret and remorse is they are useful to the extent that they inform future behavior, right? They are, they're not a place to get stuck, and to, you know, like you talked about the inner critic, and to just beat ourselves up, like there's nothing productive that comes from that. However, if we can take intentional time to reflect on it, and say, where does this maybe is this disconnected from my values and the way I want to show up in the world. Will I do differently to prepare for a situation like this, or how will I try to respond differently than where growth comes from?
Kurt Bush
Yeah, Kim, this is where, like, we're speaking the same language, and I love it. I love it, you know. I like to use the word, I like to use the words like we want those moments of regret and remorse to lead to empowered action, you know, meaning like it drives me to take agency and ownership for something different, you know, versus I think what's normal, and a lot of people, especially with imposter syndrome, is it leads to disempowering action, which looks a lot like shame and hiding and avoiding, and I can't let someone see that I made that mistake, I can't let someone see that I lashed out, and that I don't like it, because I don't know how to fix it, and it just causes me to hide. So, yeah, Kim, I snaps, can I snap? I love that, I love that.
Kim Meninger
Yes, thank you. And you know, I'm thinking about this holistically too, because there is so much of our life these days is reactive, and you know, we're just so busy, and we're trying to get through the day, and there are probably, if we're honest with ourselves, a number of situations that happen, you know, to varying degrees that we walk away from with some degree of regret, or I wish I handled that differently, and, and I think that, that as a parent, too, not just, you know, in my professional life, but with my husband, or just different types of personal interactions, and I think that what you're inviting us to think about too is just how do we slow down long enough to be reflective and not just, just constantly doing and…?
Kurt Bush
Yeah, can I bounce something off you, Kim? Can I get your reaction to, or your response? I don't want a reaction, so I want you to push on this. I'm open to you pushing on this. Here's something I've been thinking about lately. There's an author that I, that I like, she, she writes about this idea that most of our lives are ordinary, meaning that you know we have these big moments, but most of our lives are, you know, putting laundry away or making a peanut butter sandwich, or, you know, putting the bed sheets back on. Like, most of our lives are ordinary, and you brought it - not that parenting is ordinary - but those are kind of ordinary moments. I went through a drive-through to get coffee this morning, and I didn't order the thing that I wanted exactly, because I was like nervous to do it wrong, like this is one of those ordinary moments where, like, if our lives are ordinary, then those ordinary moments are also places of like biggest growth opportunity and biggest impact, that if we can notice those places, you know, parenting, I think, is a great example. If we can notice them and think, like, okay, this might not be huge multi-million dollar contract at work, but it is going to be an impactful place. If I can notice and pause and reflect, even in the super ordinary, mundane moments, that, that can still even lead to transformation that, that can impact the multi-million dollar contracts, or whatever that is. I don't know. What do you want to say about that?
Kim Meninger
I love that, because I think there is a way, and maybe I'm just.. this is resonating with me personally, because I'm in a constant battle with myself over whether or not my life is as meaningful as it should be.
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
The kind of impact I want to have on the world, and there is just, there are natural limitations that come the ordinary things that we have to do, and in the world, so this goes back in my mind to what you said at the beginning, which is everybody leads something, and I think that if we think about this as, who do I want to be in the world, right? Like, what do, like, how do I want to be of service, or how do I want other.. how do I want to treat other people? Those ordinary moments that give us the greatest opportunity to do that, and I think that that creates a more purposeful experience when we're not going out and doing multi-million dollar contracts, because you're right, like if that's what we're waiting for in order to sort of measure the value of our lives or the progress that we're making, we're always going to feel like we're falling short.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah, I think so, and maybe I'm also just projecting my own stage of life in that too, but I mean, I do, yeah, I just, I've been thinking about this more and more. Can I ask you a question? I know, like, I don't mean to, like, come on and hijack your show…
Kim Meninger
No, it's a conversation.
Kurt Bush
You talked about the impact you want to have? I mean, you and I swim in waters where, like, we're going to talk about impact, but I don't hear a lot of people name, hey, I want to have a certain impact. What is the impact? Would you say more about that?
Kim Meninger
Sure, you know, I think the part of this may be ego-driven, and part of it is service-driven, and so when I was a kid, I wanted to be famous.
Kurt Bush
Okay, okay.
Kim Meninger
I wanted to be an actress, be not because I liked acting, but because I wanted to be like a celebrity. Yeah, thought a lot about what's at the root of that, and I think that, you know, I could spend hours telling you my backstory and where that probably comes from, but I, I really want to feel at the end of my life like I've maximized this journey, and people are important to me, and I want to connect with as many people as possible. I want to feel like I've done something that matters.
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
And so you know, I can't always be doing these big scale types of things, and so for me having a meaningful conversation with one person who's having a tough time and walks away feeling better is like you were talking about one of those quote-unquote maybe more ordinary moments.
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
But it's something that makes me feel like I'm doing, I'm being the human that I want to be during this short time that I'm here.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, I love that, Kim. Thanks for saying it.
Kim Meninger
Thanks for asking.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, just gets me all jazzed up.
Kim Meninger
And how do you, how do you manage through this? Because I'm curious, as a coach, you know, we spend a lot of time, we are almost similar to what we were talking about, of the leaders who want to be strong and want to make sure that we're being that support resource for others, like how do you navigate being the person whose job is to support other people in a world that feels so deceitful.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, it sure does, doesn't it? I mean, there's some days, like, where.. what.. what are we in a movie, you know? There's just a lot of days where I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I mean, I think I think this maybe this is a longer answer than this needed to be, but I think this is where my pastoral experience, like, set me up for this. I had some really good mentors that helped me think about things like counter systems, so if, if I know that that my work as a coach, like, I, I'm, I'm given the opportunity every day to work with people, and I have to build in counter systems that, that keep me from taking on the things that I hear, and keeping, keeping me from bearing loads that aren't mine to bear. I think about counter systems of rest and rhythm and reflection. I think about counter systems that allow me to find a way to, like, feel joy, you know. I'm not a therapist, obviously, like I'm not a, I'm not a licensed therapist or counselor, but, but there's still, I mean, you know, this, there's still heavy things that come up, and there's still people in situations that I don't love, like I want my clients to be transformed and whole today, so there is an opportunity to carry loads that aren't mine, but, but I really, I had some really good people help me, help me name clearly, like, what do I need, and it's things like rest and reflection, and like, I do some things that bring me joy, I try to carve out intentional rest, I think the sort of faith-based world would say Sabbath, but I think about it as a time where, where, like, I can engage my whole self. I work primarily with my mind, and like this. So, on, on a typical point in my week, I'll find a way to work with my hands, you know? I'll, like, I don't know, mow my yard, trim my yard, like that kind of stuff, where I'm like engaging the rest of my body, so I try to do that. Also, I have a coach myself, and I have a really good counselor, so I think those things, the counter systems, and then other like real professionals that are doing, doing the work, and then helping me do my own work. I, I think those are key. Do you know the name Ruth Haley Barton, Kim?
Kim Meninger
No, but I'm gonna write it down.
Kurt Bush
Uh, Ruth Haley Barton. She, she's, she's an author and a leadership author. She's definitely in, like, the church leadership world, but there's a lot I think that translates. She, I'm gonna paraphrase her. She would say, if a leader is not investing in their own growth, they are disqualified from leading, and I believe that for me, I believe it for all leaders, but I think then I first have to, like, believe it for me, like I have to, I have to prescribe to that myself. So that's really the foundation is to say, if I'm going to ask people to invest in their own growth, I just, I have to do the same.
Kim Meninger
I think that's a really powerful insight that you just shared, because, and it's very relevant to a conversation I was having earlier today, to where we were talking about the importance of self-care, essentially really prioritizing these other needs that we have, and I think in a world where we overvalue doing and being quote-unquote unproductive…
Kurt Bush
Yeah.
Kim Meninger
The way in which, if we talk about, you know, regret and remorse, where any kind of downtime almost feels shameful, it's like there's something I should be doing right now that's more productive than this, and I think, like, the challenge, and I say this as much for myself as I do for everybody listening, is how do we not just look at that as like, oh, I'm going to cheat right now and take some time to myself, but actually that's just as important, if not more important than all the other things that we're doing too?
Kurt Bush
Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, this is an alarming trend as well, right? And I think this, in like hustle culture that we're kind of in, has the potential to do this a lot. I have a client who is currently on a sabbatical, and just for the record, like, I faith-based organization or not, I'm a huge fan, and the organization that this client works for has said, hey, you've been here for 15 years, you're like headed towards burnout. The organization is investing in this person's sabbatical for three months to say, you know, we understand, like, this is a big investment to pay a salary for three months and get no return, but it costs a lot more to have this person burn out on a job, or you know, maybe have like a crisis, you know, you said mental health crisis, I mean, I don't know, I've seen leaders like put stuff on social media that damages the organization because they're burnout, you know, so I think there is, there is a temptation to say rest and getting away and unplugging and reflecting is counterproductive. Sure, short-term, yes. Long-term, I just, I can't be convinced that it's not better.
Kim Meninger
I completely agree with you, and I just, I just don't think that we were designed at that pace that frequently, so to just, you know, find our own versions of whatever it is that gives us that space to rest and recover, and just and reflect.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, yeah. How do you do it, Kim?
Kim Meninger
I'm a work in progress, you know. [Same. Same.] I do like to read a lot, like to be that's not, and not educational reading, like I like fiction reading, and to me that's just a way of relaxing. I also like to travel. We, as a family, we travel quite a bit, and it's what it's, you know, one of my values for myself, but also I want to teach my kids that there are lots of different ways of living, and our way isn't the only way, and so, you know, that to me is a, is a great way of stepping outside of the day-to-day, staying connected to the larger whole, and you know, experiencing new things, and so that, that's a big part of this stage of my life. My kids are at an age now where they're pretty portable, and it also gives me the inspiration, because I know there's something to look forward to. So, even if things are really stressful now, like, oh, we've got that trip coming up, or the rest that's coming.
Kurt Bush 26:03
Yeah. Okay. Fellow, fellow fiction reader, here. What's the last fiction book you read, or currently reading? Maybe I shouldn't assume that you're not currently reading.
Kim Meninger
I am currently reading the.. now I'm just wishing I had it in front of me, because it. So I absolutely loved the book, The Last Thing He Told Me from Lauren Eve.
Kurt Bush
Okay.
Kim Meninger
I think it's an Apple series now. I haven't watched it, and the sequel to that, and I can't remember the name of it, but I'm reading the sequel to that right. It's just as amazing as the first one. So that book, yeah. How about you?
Kurt Bush
I’m, I'm kind of on a Stephen King bender right now. I grew up in a, in a very like conservative home in town, and like Stephen King was kind of like the bad guy, like he's so good, he's so good. I think I'm like seven or eight deep right now. I just finished one. I actually just started a Michael Crichton book, too, called Micro. That one's really good, I think. Michael Crichton, Jurassic Park might be my favorite fiction book ever. It's very good. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. Michael Crichton right now, but I'm also like, I'm gonna go right back to Stephen King just as soon as I can.
Kim Meninger
Well, and I just.. I love that you say that proudly, right? Because that, there's, you know, there are times when I think to myself, I should be reading to learn, I should be reading more, you know. I talk to a lot of people who are always recommending different books. Oh, my self is overflowing, like, you know, at the end of the day, I just want to, I just want something that's fun and relatively mindless, and yeah, I think what we're talking about is giving ourselves permission to not always be on, to not always feel like we're solving the world.
Kurt Bush
Yea, have you, can I give an analogy? I actually don't know the difference between an analogy and a metaphor, so I don't know, actually know which one this is, Kim. But…
Kim Meninger
I don’t either.
Kurt Bush
Perfect. This is a safe space.
Kim Meninger
Yes.
Kurt Bush
So, have you ever tried to hold a beach ball underwater?
Kim Meninger
Yes, I actually have.
Kurt Bush
So, you can, you can do that for a little bit, but like your hand is constantly trying to adjust to keep, because that ball wants to come out, right? So, if you tried to hold that beach ball further and further, it'd be harder and harder to hold it down. I think some of these things, like rest and needing some joy and some fun, I think those things are like a beach ball, and when we get in this mindset where we're like grind and go and go, and we can't slow down, that beach ball of needing joy, needing rest, those needs are going to be met, and that beach ball is going to come out of the water, like beach balls always find the way out, because they float, and I think for me the question is, Am I going to allow that beach ball to come out like gently, or am I going to wait until I can't hold it under there anymore, and then it comes out and it splashes everybody in the pool, right? There's water everywhere, and I think that's kind of how I think about, like, man, I can slow down and read Michael Crichton and Stephen King, yeah, and it's going to make me feel like maybe I'm not getting as much done, sure, but at some point I'm gonna have to reckon with the need for rest and the need for joy and the need for reflection.
Kim Meninger
I love that analogy or metaphor, whichever it is.
Kurt Bush
Whatever it is.
Kim Meninger
I love that, and I, it also makes me just think again more holistically about who we are as humans, and if that beach ball can't stay down. There's a reason for that, and I think that that is very much a function of the narratives that we hold, and whether that is something that's ingrained in us from messaging that we get in different. From different people, or it's pressure that we put on ourselves. I think that a lot of what we're talking about is resetting our relationship with other parts of our lives.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, so good, Kim. So good.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. Oh my goodness, Kurt, I could seriously talk to you…
Kurt Bush
I know. Same.
Kim Meninger
Such a great philosophical conversation, and I'm so glad that you've asked me questions too. I always say I like this to be conversational. I feel like this really was for people listening who want more of you and want and want to learn about your work. Where can they find you?
Kurt Bush
Yeah, we have a website. Our coaching practice is called Brimstone Coaching Group, and our website is Brimstone Coaching Group dot com And maybe just let me say real quick, Brimstone has some weird connotations for some people, especially in the sort of Midwest faith-based world. We believe in transformation. Butterflies, as you know, are transformed creatures. They know a thing or two about transformation. The Brimstone butterfly is the longest living butterfly in the whole world. It's native to Africa, but it's the longest living creature in a transformed state. So we wanted to capture our desire for transformation in the name, not any sort of like hellfire and brimstone, nothing like that. So we always like, maybe we should have consulted a marketing person before we named that, but anyway, Brimstone Coaching Group dot com Yeah, people can get a glimpse of who we are and why we do what we do, and just get a little, little better understanding of the work we do.
Kim Meninger
Wonderful. I'll make sure that the link is in the show notes, and I love that too. I had no idea. I've never heard of a Brimstone butterfly, so that's, that's great too. Thank you so much, Kurt, for being here and for the work that you're doing. It's so important.
Kurt Bush
Yeah, thanks, Kim. This is great.
