From Validation-Seeking to Value-Creating: How to Step into Your Authority

In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about what it really means to lead with confidence, especially when you feel like you don’t belong. Are you constantly trying to prove yourself at work—working harder, saying all the right things, hoping others will finally see your value? My guest this week is Chris Marr, executive coach and author of Become an Authoritative Coach. In this inspiring conversation, Chris shares how his journey from people-pleasing and self-doubt to grounded self-respect transformed the way he shows up as a leader.

We explore how the need to be liked quietly undermines our authority, why true confidence is an inside job and how embracing your unique perspective can be your greatest leadership asset. Chris also shares practical strategies to show up with intentionality in high-stakes moments, how to stop over-performing to prove yourself and why setting clear rules of engagement helps build stronger, more honest relationships—at work and beyond.

About My Guest

Chris Marr is the founder of The Authoritative Coach and the author of Become an Authoritative Coach: Stop People-Pleasing, Challenge Your Clients, and Be Indispensable.

Chris has over 15 years of experience working with client-facing professionals and has helped individuals and teams across the globe—from small businesses to nine-figure enterprises—build stronger client relationships, navigate difficult conversations, and position themselves as indispensable experts.

What’s really fascinating about Chris is his obsession with client communication. He’s made it his mission to help professionals overcome people-pleasing habits, troubleshoot high-stakes client situations, and gain the confidence they need to truly thrive in their roles.

Chris’s work doesn’t stop there—he’s also the creator of the People Pleaser’s Path to Authority assessment, a tool that helps professionals identify and overcome habits that hold them back from doing their best work.

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theauthoritativecoach/

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Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Chris. It is such a pleasure to have you here today. I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Chris Marr

Hey, Kim, yeah, thanks for having me today. Yeah, I think with the whole impostor syndrome like angle, I think there's been a few times in my life that have been, I don't know, like just pivotal for me. And I think probably best starting with, like, I'm based in Scotland, okay, so I'm from the UK, and I think we do have this tendency to be quite sarcastic. We don't self-promote, you know, that kind of thing. So I think we've always had a sort of, like, dial it down a little bit, you know. So I think growing up in Scotland, I think has been a big part of that for me, be seen, not heard, type thing as a kid, and all that kind of stuff. And I think I grew up like that. And one of the things that as I was growing up, I always wanted to, like, be valuable, and as I got into my I don't know it's my, like, early 20s, I think I had a lot of good friends that went and learned trades and stuff like that, right? So they're building stuff for people, fixing plumbing, doing electrician stuff and all that. And I never felt like I had a practical thing that I could help people with, and that stuck with me for a long time. And because I'm a knowledge worker, I work with my mind more than I work with my hands, which is quite normal these days, you could say, but 25 years ago, not so not so normal. And growing up like that, I think I always felt like I wanted to find a way to be valuable to people. So I was always trying to find something to be valuable. And I think that's always could have been a driver of mine to find that to be helpful, right? And it's interesting just saying that out loud just now, because even coming onto a podcast like this, you could feel like you don't belong here, or you don't have anything unique to say, there's all there's there could be this lot of doubt creeping in, like, I don't belong here, I don't have anything unique to say, or, you know, all that imposter syndrome stuff, right? But actually one thing that really helps you with this is actually, what if I just turn up and try to help the best way that I can? And that usually calms everything down. And so when I even think about my career, I think just trying to be helpful in the best way that I can, instead of thinking, you know, I've got so much more to learn, I'm going to be better in five years time than I'm today, it's like, what's the best version of me that anybody could get right now? And so I always think about, I think that's always just stuck with me, this idea of, like, turning up being as helpful as I can, and that's what I can bring to this, whatever situation that happens to be. But I've struggled at times as well. Like, there's been times, there's a couple of pivotal times. I think one was, I'll give you a personal story and a work-based story. I was higher. I worked with a mentor of mine. His name is Marcus Sheridan, and he had me sort of like an understudy, sort of situation where I would, I would watch him from the stage, and he would coach people on the stage as keynote speakers, and I was kind of like scribbling my own notes, as if I was coaching, but he was doing, if that makes sense, I was like, to come up my with my own notes, and then we'd compare notes, kind of like backstage, and I'm like, why am I not? Why can't I see what he's seeing and stuff like that? And he would have me come up to the stage and say, Hey, Chris, why don't you do the feedback on this one first? And I absolutely just failed miserably at it was like a really embarrassing moment for me. And I learned in that moment that, to cut long story short, what, what struck me was is like I was trying to be right all the time, and I was trying to I was too busy worrying about what people were thinking, about what I was saying, and I was too wrapped up in it. It was like, massively about the ego and try to figure that out. That was about, that was 2016 and that was me in that moment, really figuring out about what, what work I needed to do on me, and something I figured out about this idea of like becoming more confident, or stepping into your authority or become an expert overcoming your need to be liked, was that, if you have people with a high need to be liked are very, very motivated by what's happening outside of them. So what do you think of me, and what are they saying about me, or in front of me, behind my back, whoever it might be. But if you want to build your authority and really feel confident in yourself, it’s actually an internal play. Like, that's all about self-respect and your values. So it's quite interesting that I figured that I was like, actually, I'm looking to the outside world to for all the answers, when actually all the answers are really within me. And so that was a that was a move, that moved me towards something more important and a personal story. It's funny, because just thinking about what we could, we might talk about today, and one of the things that happened to me personally was, is that I separated from my wife about 10 years ago, and we had a son together, and I remember feeling like I didn't belong. This was at like. Like, kindergarten, kind of like when he was really, really young, like I wasn't supposed to be at his play. Like it is, like all the parents come around and they spend time at the school, and I remember feeling like, probably the time I felt so out of place, like I didn't belong, was in that moment which was really interesting. Like, it's like, such a deep feeling of being completely out of place. But I'd say that I've always felt like a little bit of a square peg in a round hole in a lot of circumstances throughout my life, less so now, but certainly felt like had a bit of work to do to feel well, to find my place in the world. Yeah, let's put it that way.

Kim Meninger

You said so many interesting things there, and I really want to go back for a moment to when you were talking about being as helpful as possible. I think about this a lot too, as a confidence strategy, that if our focus is on proving ourselves right, if, if we go into a situation trying to demonstrate that we're worthy of being in the room, showing people how smart we are or how qualified we are, we're never going to feel confident, because we're never going to measure up to our own unrealistic standards, right? But if we went to the room, as you're saying, from a place of service, and we say, what does this moment need right now? How can I most effectively be of help in this situation? Then we are less focused on what other people are thinking. We're not listening as much to our inner critic. We're really thinking about, how can I use my skills in service of something bigger than me, and so I just love that strategy as a way of breaking out of some of that anxiety and some of the I really frame it as if you think about it, when you're feeling anxious, am I coming from a place of ego, or am I coming from a place of service? Right? Is a good way to catch yourself if you're, if you're too far in the other direction?

Chris Marr

Yeah, I think about it, like intention, like, what's my intention here, you know? And like, am I looking to get a pat on the back because I'm the smartest person in the room, or am I going to be as helpful as I can be? And if people don't like that, then that's on them, you know. And I think there's like this, this idea that this need to be liked, I would actually say like this need for anything. I think when you get to a point where you don't need anything like, I mean it like, in the sense of like needing, like, needing to be, like, needing to get that pat on the back, or needing to be the smartest person in the room, or needing to have people like you, even right, as soon as you can let go of all of that, suddenly you can actually just be yourself. And if people don't like it, then that's fine. You know, I had this when I was writing my book become an authoritative coach. I had this idea that, like as I was writing and sharing all my ideas and all the things I've learned, it was a book that came from the work through, through business coaching, I found it like a need to be liked actually holds us all back from really doing our best work, because, because we never need to be like, we don't really say what needs to be said. We kind of, we hold back right, and we dial ourselves down so that we can be like, quote, unquote, accepted, you know? And it's actually what we do all of that for. And I think what happens is, is like what your risk has never been liked like you and never been respected as well. And so I think if you if we try and go for like you said, being as helpful as we can be first, and if people like that, then great if they don't, at least they know that you told the truth like you were truthful about what you see. You said you had your opinion, you expressed your expertise, or whatever, you helped in the best way you can. At least then like the people know who you are and like you carry yourself in a certain way, you're not pretending to be somebody that you're not. I call it like a quiet like a a grounded confidence. You know, I think if we can play the way I look at is like three circles, kind of one after the other, kind of layered over each other. And I think what you were saying there is, like, interesting me, because ego with confidence is like, I'm always right, but confidence with competence is like, I know what to do, and I believe in myself. And if you take the ego bit out of it, it doesn't matter if you're right or not. Does that make sense? It's like you're, you're just got this really sense of, like, grounded confidence in your own sense of what you know and understand about the world, or of the thing that you're great at, and I think that can be quite, quite empowering.

Kim Meninger

Absolutely. And I really like what you're saying too about not focusing so much on making people happy or having them like you, because in the end, you end up alienating people because they want something so. Substantive from you right in the workplace anyway. And so I think that the, the way that you were talking about intentionality is really important, because I often think about it as like, if you're going into a situation that makes you feel uncomfortable, you're anxious, you're not sure how you want to show up to ask yourself, like, Who do I want to be in this moment? I want other people to experience, experience me on top of the What can I offer? Because, to your point, I think that if we show up from a place of service, and we show up from a place of these are my core values, and this is what I stand for and what I believe in, then no matter what the outcome is, we're going to feel stronger, we're going to have less regret, we're not going to beat ourselves up as much, because we can always come back to I did what I believed was the right thing to do, right?

Chris Marr

Yeah, let's call it integrity, right? Let's call it self-respect. So, you know, I think when you've got a high level of self-respect, you eradicate your need to be liked. It's like a spectrum. If you've got need to be liked, it like a negative 10 self-respect. It like a plus 10. And you can move up that spectrum, I think you'll find that your need to be liked will just diminish. And you, you won't need. You won't be needing, you won't be people pleasing. You won't you won't be changing who you are in order to fit into the assumptions you're making about what other people want from you, right? Which is, it's like, this whole complicated thing. You know, it's crazy, but I do think this, this is a mindset trick. I think, like, I teach this to my clients as well, who are trying to move up that spectrum, right from need to be, like to be in an authority or a trusted authority. When I say authority, I don't mean power over I just mean presence, like an authoritative presence where, like, your expertise is respected, and people take advice and guidance from you, and they don't, you know there's, there's a respected professional relationship. But one of the mindset pieces that we teach is, and this came from my own thing as well. I would actually sit down. I would take an index card from my desk and a date it, and I would write down, who do I want to be today? Like, what can I What can I say? Who do I want to be there? I might say, like, what kind of coach do I want to be today, and I just train myself to be a bit like the best version of myself, because I think it's important that when you're, when you're a business coach, working with leadership teams, marketing sales teams, you do have to turn up with a certain type of energy and presence. You know that is about respect rather than being liked. If I had to choose one, I would rather be respected and liked, but oftentimes we risk respect over liked. But I would write down things like, you know, I would write down things like, you know, it's not about me, or don't take it personally, or stay curious for longer, you know, I'd write down these just whatever was important, like, whatever I felt like was the gap for me today, whoever was going to move me towards being a better version of myself? I'd write that. I'd say, like other things, like, does it look like you're having fun? Are you enjoying yourself? You know, just things to just show up in the right way. And I teach my clients do exactly the same thing. Just take a take a beat. Write down. Like, what values do want to show up? What energy do you want to show up with today? Even, like, what skill Do you want to bring to your work today as well? Can be helpful. But, yeah, high stakes situations, especially even in personal, you know, personal situations, we're going to a party or something like that, and you can feel the anxiety building up. It's, really the same, the same the same work that we have to do.

Kim Meninger

You’re right, and I love that. It's not something that takes a lot of time, right? It can be done fairly quickly, in advance of the day or the meeting or whatever it is that you're entering into. Right? Want to ask you a question too, because you were talking about the belonging piece, which I think is really important. And when you feel different from the people around you, oftentimes it is because you maybe bring a different perspective or a different skill set, or, you know, something original to the mix that we're not acknowledging as a differentiator. We just assume that if we're different, it's wrong. There's a problem there. And so I'm curious how you think about really leveraging that lack of conformity, or that you know, that feeling to really be, be the unique voice in a situation, right? Like, I mean, if everybody has the same background, if everybody's thinking the same way, then we're not getting any creative ideas. So the opportunity is to really shift from Hey, I don't belong here, to Hey, maybe I have something that the team needs right now.

Chris Marr

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. It's like, it's actually about acceptance of yourself, yes. So, yeah, interesting. A client told me, I can't remember the exact situation, but she, she came onto Zoom for one of our normal calls or whatever, and she said, I've got something to tell you, but I think I know what you're going to say, and it's because I was going to challenge her, or being distracted, like she knew it, she knew but she turned up anyway, knowing fine well, that I was going to call her out on the thing and like, that's just an example of why the things that I see, the way that I see it, and how I see it, is important to her. Right now, are there better coaches than me? Have you? Probably could you hire somebody else? Yeah, but there's not going to be me with my like point of view, through my lens, with the way that I think. And over time, I think that what I've done is just realize that actually, the more me I can be, the more valuable I am to the people that want to work with me. Like, there's just no question about that to me, like I I'm not even, I don't even think I dial it all the way up even I think I've still got, I think I've still got more room to be even more me. And I sort of riff on this with a friend, just a really recent conversation. I was like, imagine a world where people just hired you because of the unique way that you think. And of course, there's a whole philosophical thing that happened, but essentially, that is what people are doing, right? They are hiring, yeah, you've got like a program, yes, you've got some expertise. Yes, you've got frameworks, tools, methods, whatever you've got, like a, you know, a common goal for all your clients, or whoever it might be, but ultimately, the thing that makes me different, like, you could have the exact same thing as me, but we're still different, as long as we both, or at least one of us, has shifted towards being completely, like, accepting of what you bring and it's so, it's so empowering and liberating to know that the way that my brain works around things is actually valuable to people. You know, I think that's such a, such a really nice place to get to when you realize that the way you think and the way you see things and the perspective you have is valuable to a group of people out there that will ultimately, like they'll pay to work with you for that.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, again, I love, I love the way you see that too, and even being like more of me, right? When you say that just really being your true self because when you're not in the instances that we're talking about, where maybe we're trying to please others, we're watering down what makes…

Chris Marr

You’re dimming it. You're like a dimmer switch on a light, right? Totally. I will say to clients, like, I'm too much. I'm too much for people. Sometimes I go too fast, I'm too much. I'm too critical sometimes. But I just tell them all of that up front and say, like, 90% of the time, I'm going to be pointing out all the stuff that you're doing wrong, all the mistakes you're making, and all the things you need to do different. If you're looking for a pat on the back, this is not it. This is not where you need to be fine. You can find somebody else to do that. That's just not going to be it. I'll say things like, I'm going to go really fast, right? It's your job to keep up with me, and if it's getting too much, you need to tell me, I can't read your mind, you know. So that's just an example of the things that I'll try to get across in a way that helps me understand what it's like to work with me. And I'm sort of, in a way, just giving myself permission to just be me, in a way that helps them feel disarmed around me as well. Like, I don't want people coming in, like continually being surprised on their heels all the time, or flinching around me, that's not it, but it's kind of just giving people a sense of like, and this is who you're getting when, when you when we do this work together, and it's what's going to feel like, it's what's going to sound like. And I think it's important to make sure that you set the conditions for the right type of working relationship with your clients, around like, what, like, who like, knowing who you are, of course, is a big part of that.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and I think that's true in the workplace too. I think about that a lot when you're when you're working with a team, or you're managing a team, whatever the relationship is, is if you have any insecurities about yourself, if you have any unique personality traits, anything you've been given feedback on, right? Like put it out there upfront, because people will appreciate that that's who you are. We, we're always making up stories about why people are behaving the way that they are, and oftentimes they're unfavorable to ourselves or others. So if, for example, Chris, you were coaching me and I didn't know all of what you just said about yourself, I might think, Oh my gosh. He must think I'm terrible. He's criticizing. He's pointing out what mistakes I'm making, as opposed to, this is how I help people, right? Eight. Like, this is my approach, and I do this with everybody. And so I think being able to set those terms that is really important, because now, if you show up and you're really super-fast paced, I can say, oh, that's Chris. Like, I know that about him. This isn't about me and how I'm not performing.

Chris Marr

Yeah, like, people don't come to me when, like, it's so interesting I'm laughing, because people don't come to me with, like, surface-level complaint crap. Like, like, if you're going to come to me, I'm just going to, I'm going to give you the truth of what I see about the whole thing. Like, so in other words, if you're going to come to me with something to complain about, get ready to, like, do the work on it. But if you're not, if you want to just complain to somebody that's going to be like, Oh yeah, it sucks. It's really bad, then you're going to have to go to like, one of your friends or something like that. And it's so, so true, though, because and actually, like, all circles, I feel like nobody comes to me with that stuff anymore, because they know that I'm just going to call them out on whatever the thing is, you know. So I think it's just that you're right. It's like people, you know, you got to teach people how to like work around you, I guess, teach people to treat you, I guess, yeah, exactly.

Kim Meninger

And also, I think it's important in the spirit of self-respect and self-acceptance and the themes that we've been talking about that not every environment is the right fit for you, right? And I think the more you, you are, the more other people. Let's say you're interviewing for a job if you have to pretend to be somebody else in order to get that job. Now you're committing yourself to a performance for the duration of your time working there, as opposed to being your true self. And if it's not a fit better, you know that now, right in the, in the work that you and I do, it's great because people can decide, is this the right coach for me or, or not, and then we save ourselves a lot of time and, and you know pain by having people self-select in the workplace. I think the more true we can be to ourselves, the more people can see like, oh, yeah, you know what? Maybe this isn't the right person for this role. Or, Wow, we didn't even realize this was the person we were looking for. But look at all these great qualities.

Chris Marr

Yeah, it's all about fit right in relationships and work and jobs, I think any even in workplace, it's all relationships. So the more you can do to set those relationships up, especially if you're in a small team, or if you're a leader of a team, or what a dynamic might be, you're going to have a handful of strong relationships. And I think if you can take the lead on setting those relationships up for what for this, like the strength that's required for you to grow in them, then I think you'll be doing the right thing there for yourself and for the other people around you as well, even though they might not appreciate it or realize what's happening there. But I think about, when I think about relationships, I think about, you know, how do we set the conditions for success in these relations? How do we other people just call them boundaries, but we call them like setting the conditions, because it's kind of like a cooperative or a collaborative type of, you know, work that we need to do. So when I start work with clients, for example, I might ask them, Have you ever hired a coach before? You ever hired a consultant before? What went well? What didn't go so well? What does our relationship need to look like? All the while knowing kind of what answers I'm really looking for. But ultimately, what I'm trying to do is make sure that I don't know when I need to give you, like, a critical feedback on something, that you're actually going to be okay, like you're gonna be ready for it. It's not gonna hit you like a gut punch, but it's actually going to be like, Oh yeah, we talked about this. So you know, Kim, you're ready to talk about this? I've got some feedback for you. I know you want to be successful at this thing. I spotted something that I think is holding you back. I'd love to tell you all about it. Are you ready to work with this? Work with me on it, or should we arrange a different time? You know, it's like, it doesn't come at you like left field. It feels like something that we agreed that we were going to do because we said we wanted each other to grow in this relationship. You know, something like that sounds a bit formal, but something like that, where we're saying, I want to give to this relationship. I want us to grow together, or I want to see you grow, if it's a leader, or you want to, you know, whatever it might be, you need to create this kind of rules, if you will, for one of a better word, the rules for that relationship, or the environment that that relationship sits in, yeah, really important.

Kim Meninger

You're right. I think about it as rules. I call it rules of engagement, right? Which may sound too formal, but exactly what you're saying. And then that way we kind of know what we're getting into.

Chris Marr

Or what you want. You know, do you want this? Do you want this type of relationship? Even you're like, well, actually, not really. That's not what I want from this relationship. It's like, okay, so what do you want, right? So it's like, having the discussion, I think it's important. Collaborating on it together is important.

Kim Meninger

That's right, that's right, yeah. And I think the more that you are just kind of. Taking it back to where we started too. The more that you accept yourself, and the more that you trust yourself, the more that you'll be able to evaluate whether something is the right fit for you. If you haven't thought about what you want or what you need, you're probably going to have to engage in a lot more trial and error, which is going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be often times more painful, but the more that you embrace who you are right, the easier it is to say, Nope. You know what? This isn't a this isn't a good fit. And that's not because I'm wrong or because the other person is wrong. It's just because, you know we're different, and I'm going to move on to a better opportunity.

Chris Marr

Yeah, I think the only caveat to all of that is knowing when someone's trying to help you. Like, so for you and I to talk about, I think you and I know how to maybe, like, deliver that type of or facilitate that type of conversation. Other people aren't trained in communication, so they don't know. So they might try to help you, but it sounds like they're like, they're being overly critical, or it doesn't, it's not landing well for you. I think we all need a bit of patience with other people, because most, most of the time, somebody's trying to help you with something. So it's just knowing. So for example, what I'm trying to get is, like, don't get in your own way around your own growth, either, like, so for example, say, you deliver a presentation at work and someone says you like, really suck. And like, when you get to the end, it just go, falls flat. Like, they didn't deliver it very well. It didn't hit me very well. But at the same time, it's like, actually, is that feedback that I need? There's something going on there as well where you don't want to be. So like, Kim, like, give me feedback on my presentation. You don't. And it's like, actually, maybe there, maybe there's somebody telling you something here as well. So we don't want to be too standoffish either. And I think when I think about this, I wish I'd learned this a long time ago, which is this idea that, like, if you said to me, Chris, like the end of your everything about your picture was great, the ending just felt completely flat, calm. Completely flat. Call to Action didn't work with the room. I would want to be, like, completely accepting of myself, kind of tapping into what we're saying here, to be able to say, What do you mean by that, Kim, or help me understand what you saw, or it fell flat, how you know, like something that like it didn't matter, like it did not like it didn't knock me off because you said you didn't like something about me, Chris, I don't like your accent, I don't like your nose, whatever I can go well, what is it about it like that, there's, you know, nothing to do with me. Like, we're back to this idea that it's not about like, it's, don't take it personally, basically, right? And nobody's out to get you. Nobody's trying to, like, deliberate, like there's okay, there's a few people in the world, perhaps, but most people aren't out to get you. Most people are trying their best, and most people want to help. Do they say in the right way? Sometimes not? Do they communicate it in the right environment? Probably shouldn't have said that in front of the team, right? But the intention, I think, is as important to recognize that people want to help.

Kim Meninger

That's a very good point. I'm glad you added that, because there are times when maybe we're feeling like, Oh, this isn't going well and this isn't a good fit, when in actuality, maybe there is something we can learn from this person. Probably, yeah, and I think that I often think about it too, in the context of feedback like you're talking about, is there was a great article in the Harvard Business Review a few years ago about the fee that feedback is really more about it tells you more about the values of the person delivering the feedback than about you, which is what you're talking about when it's not about you. And so if you can take it what it is, and just kind of ask yourself, like, can I learn anything from this? Right? Is this my values?

Chris Marr

You still get to decide that's the thing. You still get to choose whether or not it's valid. That's right, but at least figure out what it is to try to say to you, and then you get to decide if it's something that you want to do something with.

Kim Meninger

That's exactly right. Yeah, wow. This has been fantastic, Chris. I am really grateful for your insights, for your tips that you've been sharing. For people who want more of that from you, people want to connect with you more directly. Where can they find you?

Chris Marr

The best place is Instagram, at the authoritative coach. You'll find me there. The reason that that's the best place is because that's update that two, three times a day with content. So you'll find videos and articles and stuff like that that there every day. And then the website, and of course, the book become an authoritative coaches on Amazon, and people can check that out. That's a kind of a work in public. You could say it's kind of like everything, not everything, everything I learned in about 18 month period coaching businesses in the States. And it's all kind of stuff we've been talking about here, like how to communicate, how to deliver poor performance feedback, and all the sort of complications and difficulties that come into client work. So that book's available on Amazon.

Kim Meninger

Excellent. Well, I'll make sure those links are in the show notes as well. And thank you so much for being here, Chris. This has been great.

Chris Marr

Thanks, Kim. It's been great discussion. Thanks.