Paint the Canvas Before You Exit: How to Prepare for Life After Work

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we explore a life transition that often goes unexamined: retirement. What happens when your professional identity has defined you for decades, and suddenly you’re faced with the question, “What now?” My guest this week is Sarah Friedell O’Connell, executive transition coach and founder of ChangePoint Advisors. Sarah specializes in helping high-achieving professionals prepare for the non-financial side of retirement—what it means for their identity, purpose, and daily life.

Together, we unpack the emotional and psychological aspects of leaving full-time work, how to intentionally design your next chapter and why so many of us struggle to imagine a fulfilling life outside of our careers. Whether you’re approaching retirement or simply want to live more intentionally now, this conversation is a powerful reminder that transitions don’t have to be terrifying, they can be transformational.

About My Guest

Sarah Friedell O’Connell is an Executive Transition Coach and the owner of ChangePoint Advisors, a firm dedicated to helping senior executives navigate career changes. Sarah brings both business and career management expertise to her work with senior leaders, and her background as a former communications executive at Fidelity Investments and a spokeswoman for the President of Harvard University gives her a unique perspective and deep understanding of business and leadership. Sarah made her own career pivot into executive coaching, so she understands what it takes to successfully manage major change.

Sarah has been coaching C-suite executives for over 10 years, helping hundreds of executives across a variety of industries and functions achieve success personally and professionally. Sarah is a graduate of the College of William and Mary where she received a B.A. degree, and is certified in several psychological assessment tools. She is a graduate of the Coaches Training Institute and the College of Executive Coaching and is a Certified Retirement Coach.

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Connect with Sarah:

Website: https://www.changepointadvisors.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahfriedelloconnell/

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Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Sarah. It's so great to have you here. I've been really looking forward to this conversation, and I would love to start by inviting you to share a little bit of your story with us.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Okay, thanks, Kim. I am so thrilled to be here. This is going to be really fun. I'm excited about our conversation, and yeah, I am an executive transition coach, and I have a specialty in retirement coaching. I'm a certified retirement coach, which is a relatively new thing, and I work with senior executives to help them design the next chapter of their lives when they're thinking about stepping away from full-time work and what they wanted you next. So my business is called Change Point Advisors. We're here in Boston, but we work with people globally, and we focus on helping people who are at an inflection point move from a state of maybe uncertainty or trepidation, sometimes hesitancy about taking the plunge into something new, and we help them move into a state of readiness and excitement by helping them put together their own personal plan for their next chapter and how they want their life to be excellent.

Kim Meninger

Well, I have so many more questions on that front too, but before we get there, I also want to, I also want to ask tell us about how you got here. So you have been doing your own business for a short period of time, if I remember correctly. So where, where were you before?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yeah, so I had an original career way back in time when I came out of college, I went into corporate communications. I went into public relations, some marketing. I did media relations. And I was in Washington, DC for many years, and I moved back to Boston, and I got a job, actually, in financial services. Even though I had never studied finance, I was at Fidelity Investments for many years, and my final role was as a spokeswoman for the company, talking to reporters. And I had to learn about finance, and I actually had to learn a lot about saving for retirement. At one point, I was in the institutional business, learning about 401K plans. So I never thought I would ever use that again. But interestingly, fast forward, it's highly relevant in what I do today. But I left Fidelity, went to Harvard, worked for the president of Harvard, on his communications team for a while, and I left there, and I was feeling super burned out. And this is many years ago now. It's like 22,008 or so. And I had always been interested in coaching. I'd always been interested in human psychology, and along the way, had done some training and life coaching and other things executive coaching, but I never really used it, and it wasn't until I was in my own very own transition that ended up being highly relevant. I shifted into a career of coaching. So I walked away from a communication career into a coaching career, and I took time making a transition takes a time. And I was actually doing it without the support of a coach, but I had a lot of people who were very supportive around me, but I feel like I have a lot of credibility in helping my clients, because I understand what it takes to kind of move into a new, new place in life. So I got into executive career coaching initially, and I was a partner in a company that does that here in Boston, and I left there about six years ago because I was trained in a whole variety of other kinds of coaching, including retirement coaching. And what I noticed was that my executive clients who were leaving their jobs and looking for something new. Sometimes did not want to work again. They didn't want to do full-time work, but they were a CEO or a chief nursing officer or a CFO, and they didn't know what else they would do. They maybe, financially didn't have to work, but they didn't know how to step away from what they did into something new, and I realized there was really a dearth of information and support around how to transition when you're leaving full-time work. So, so my story is that I moved through a couple of different careers, and now I'm in sort of my third career as a business owner. And you take everything with you along the way. You know, people who have a set of skills and experience, you don't leave that behind, that, that comes with you into your new things. So helping people step into their new chapter and really live their whole life is intensely rewarding for me, so it's work.

Kim Meninger

I lover, I love that, and I want to make a quick note here, because there may be people listening who don't identify as a senior executive, but may also be nearing retirement or considering what their next career phase looks like. So I just want to emphasize that a lot of what we're talking about has relevance to people who aren't at the senior executive level as well.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Absolutely you are absolutely correct. So we specialize in working with senior executives for a variety of reasons. I've spent my career working at the executive level. I've been an executive, and there's some statistics that show that senior leaders have an especially difficult time stepping away from a role, and this gets that identity, which I know we'll talk about, but you know, people's identity gets really wrapped into their role as a leader. So I have a special set of tools we use with senior leaders. But what we're talking about today is relevant to anybody. I mean, it's a it's a major life transition to stop what we've been doing for 1020, 3040, years, working into a space of maybe working full time, but usually, if somebody wants to retire, they want to continue to do something, but they don't want to do it 50 hours a week anymore. And so this is relevant to anybody who's making that shift, that transition into a new phase.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's interesting. I want to you actually set up a really good segue here. When you talked about the identity piece, [yeah,] when you think about, you know, senior-level leaders in particular, we think of them as more confident, right? They've sort of been in these roles. They've been navigating lots of challenges. They're kind of at the peak of their careers at this point, yet there are a lot of doubts. There are a lot of hesitations, as you mentioned earlier, and it can be a moment of crisis for people who are starting to think about, who am I if I'm not, dot, dot, dot. Right? And that can be true again, not just for senior executives, but so many of us, especially those of us who identify as high achievers, perfectionists, all of the all the things that make us vulnerable to imposter syndrome, right? Have that same kind of struggle with maybe I, maybe I want to take my foot off the gas a little bit. Maybe I am thinking about retirement, but I don't know how to make that adjustment, because, what is the who? How am I adding value anymore? Who, you know, who am I to the rest of the world?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yes, all of those are the critical questions. And what's so interesting is sometimes it's unconscious, where somebody's working, working, working, and they really, they, they want to step away, but they don't know how, as you said, you go from doing something you know and something you're good at and something that you're identified as you know, the into a big blank canvas is not comfortable. A big empty space is not comfortable. So the work we do is to help to try to paint that Canvas before you exit. But you know the, the identity you know in North America, when you meet somebody, most often, the first question you ask is, what do you do? You know people. That's how we introduce ourselves. We are identified often by the role that we have in the workforce, right? And so when that disappears, you know, I am a fill-in-the-blank worker, when that goes away, you have to sort of tease apart who you are in real not just in relation to your job, but all the other facets of your life, right? So when you can know, and often what happens when people retire is to say, Well, I used to be x and but who are you today? Is a whole journey of figuring it out. And so there's a whole process we actually take people through to focus on identity. There's a really big piece around that. And what's interesting is that is really a challenge for people who own their own business. So business owners, particularly if they've built something from the ground up, and they've spent their lives creating, you know, you know Kim worldwide, is you, and then suddenly it's either sold to somebody else or handed off to a next generation, or you step away and you're no longer associated with that and it's your name, who What do you? What do you become? Who are you? And so, so it's really. So it's an interesting, sort of a hidden challenge that's not specifically often discussed when there's no real road map for us to retire. I mean, the, the, the road map is, hey, it's been great having you at this job here. Good luck. You know, sometimes it's, here's your parting gift, and, you know, you go away into the sunset, and we're not really taught how to do that. There's no actual process for doing that. So we actually, I created a process I take people through, and it takes several months to reflect on who you are. How's your life been? What do you want next? What's your vision? What are your goals? And then what's the strategy for how you're going to go get that and then we stay with you into implementation, trying out things, talking to people, testing out new areas, new things that feel purposeful and meaningful and bring joy. And that's the ultimate goal.

Kim Meninger

So, yeah, I so I have a thought that I don't want to forget to share, and this may not be the best moment to share it, but you're making me think about the fact too, that if our motivation for staying where we are is rooted in this fear and discomfort and identity crisis, all of the all of the you know, doubts that we're talking about, we're also doing a disservice to the people around us, because there are a lot of people who stay in their roles too long, and that creates a challenge for people who are ready to move into those roles and want to take on that next level of leadership, who maybe have some new ideas, new energy, you know, and so it it's also important to recognize that this isn't just an individual challenge. It becomes an organizational challenge as well, because it requires some sensitivity, as you're saying, there's, you know, it's hard to kind of kick somebody out the door who's been there for a long time, who has been a really great asset to the business, but maybe is. It's just becoming clear that this is no longer the right fit, but they're not. They don't have another option, so they're just kind of staying in this holding pattern indefinitely, right?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yes, exactly. And so the work that we do, we work both with corporations and with individuals, and exactly, for that reason, Kim, sometimes companies need to do succession planning. They need to think about, particularly, if that's just a part of, you know, being a good business is who's going to step in, if so and so is no longer with us, and so, you know, thinking about successors, thinking about training and grooming other people who are coming up through the organization sometimes that people can get stuck where they, they stay in their role a little too long. They actually, you know, we get tired of doing the same thing over and over and year over year, and we have so many skills and abilities and so much wisdom, but it's hard for people to think about, how can I apply that in a new or different way? And so and again, sometimes this is unconscious, like people just stay because it's a routine. They know what they're doing. They're a leader. They you know they're directing things. But it really would be healthier for them to do something different, and the organization sometimes is ready for them to step out so that I, you know, a different person can step in with a fresh view, you know, maybe new ideas, and it can be difficult. So, so we come in and help through the process. Because, again, if you're if you're sitting in your thing, your role, and you're a little tired, and you kind of don't want to keep doing the grind and all the meetings, but you don't know what's next. Having a conversation with a retirement coach to say, Okay, let's, let's, let's pull back and think about who are you and what are all the other things that you bring you know, you know. Think about your whole life. We, we start by taking a holistic view of somebody's life. How is your health? How are your relationships? What are the things that energize you? What are the things you don't have time for, that you want to do? Help them get reconnected to that? And sometimes it's think about things you studied in college that you were really interested in, but you didn't take that. Path, you know, and here you are today. Now is an opportunity for us, if, if you can do it financially, if you are blessed enough to be able to step out of what you're doing and go into something new, you know, we help people get excited about it and get reconnected to it, and that helps the organization because it smooths the transition. And if somebody is excited about leaving, they're more likely to want to train their successor. Knowledge transfer is easier. Planning is better. So sort of everybody wins when the executive has something to look forward to. So it's not just I'm being kicked out or I'm, you know, I've overstayed my welcome. That's, that's nobody wins there. That's just never good and so but it takes courage, and it takes, often, you know, expert help, to get someone to think about, oh, yeah, there's all these other things I could do and be spending my time on.

Kim Meninger

That's so important because I think about this in the context of some of the narratives we hold around aging too. And I see this as somebody who is like going into my second half of life kicking and screaming. [Yes.] I, I have historically, and I think I might have mentioned to you this to you and you and I met offline, too, yeah, is, you know, my husband's been looking forward to retirement for years, and he's been just, you know, doing everything he can to set himself up so that he can retire and enjoy the rest of his life. And I have always had this sort of fear of retirement as I'm giving up, right? It's like a Oh, I'm admitting that I've reached the point in my life where I'm no longer going to be useful to society. I say that dramatically. I don't really mean it that way, but, but I think that we live much longer, more productive lives than ever before, and if we're thinking about retiring, and you know, our 60s, we could potentially live another 20 or 30 years and, and what does that mean and look like? And so I think you're bringing up these really important points that I feel should almost be socialized a lot earlier in life, rather than at the last minute, when people have to make these major life decisions. And I deal with all these identity challenges, it's like, how do we prepare proactively for the fact that we will reach a point in our careers where this part is over, right? [Yeah.] Trying to enter into a new phase.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yeah. Well, your point about aging is so important. So, you know, I'll just give you a quick bit of history. When there didn't used to be retirement, right? So it there up until, like the 1930s you just worked. You just you worked in a factory, you worked on a farm, you worked in a coal mine. You know, you just worked until you didn't work anymore. And then, after the stock market crash in 1929 the idea of giving people benefits and social safety net, Social Security came about, sort of around the 1930s and that's when the notion of retirement was sort of created, right? So in in 1930 I'll just give you, if you survived childhood, you made it to adulthood, your life expectancy was 67 years old, okay? And the retirement age, the benefits age was set at 65 okay? So you're going to get two great years of living with the benefit right back in the 30s. And fast forward, we still have a retirement age of 65 which, you know, is what it is, and but we're going to live another 30 years, right? Average life expectancy has increased significantly, so you can expect to live, like, a quarter of your life as a retired person. And yet there's no real roadmap or plan for, you know, what are you going to do with all that time? And how are you going to continue to be productive and feel relevant?, and, you know, add value out in the world and make an impact like we're not really, that's never taught to us. It's sort of, so, you know, we're expected to kind of step into this situation. Population, you know, without a road map. And I will tell you that there's some statistics that, first of all, up close to 10,000 people a day are turning 65 in the US. So there's a major demographic shift happening where we are an aging population, and that, that 10,000 a day is expected to continue for like, the next 10 to 15 years. So there's a big wave of people stepping out of the workforce. There's a separate topic we could talk about another time, which is sort of the brain drain that's happening with expertise and wisdom walking out the door and not being used. But so people are aging, and you're going to be alive a long time, and yet, how are you going to spend your time, and what's going to be meaningful? And the old idea of retirement, you know, do you think about the ads where somebody's retired? They're always sitting on the porch in a rocking chair, or they're playing with the grandchildren, or they're playing golf? You know, what are you going to do? I'm going to play golf. That's what people say. It's all leisure activities that we associate with retirement. I'm going to live at the beach, or I'm going to I'm going to travel. What do you want to do? The number one answer, what are you going to do when you retire? I'm going to travel. All right, that's awesome, but you're probably not going to travel 365, days a year. So what else? And you know, it can be challenging. You know, back to the identity piece. When you've identified yourself through your job. And that's not, I'm not criticizing that. That's, that's kind of how we're socialized, right? So when that goes away, there's a whole set of losses that come with that that people don't really think about. And I think for younger people, like as you were saying, we're not really socialized to think about this until it's happening. You know, it's, it's time you're nearing retirement, and it can feel stressful. And people, you know, put the brakes on. They're not ready to retire because they don't want to be put out to pasture. They're not they don't have the grandkids to play with. You know it now, what the old visuals, the old notion is completely outdated. And even the language of retirement, you know, I do a presentation that I have a slide that I say, you know, here's the definition of retirement from the dictionary. Is essentially stopping work because you're old, and that's it, okay, and then, and then what you know, it's a big question mark out there. So when you're younger, anticipating that there's going to be this shift. And I probably want to think about who I am in relation to other parts of my life in, you know, other things that I love to do, besides my job. And I think that's perhaps happening somewhat today.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and I think that's a really important I mean, one of the conversations I've been having with people who are primarily more mid-career is just how to stop over investing emotionally in the careers that they have now, because they are all consuming, and they do become such a definitive feature of our identity. And I feel like if we could be mindful now of all of the things that we want to make time for in the future. I mean, ideally, we'd have better balance along the way, but if we can't do that right, then to have to at least have that vision. I love the way you use the expression paint the canvas earlier of like, there will come a time in my life when I will have more time for this. What do I want it to look like, so that it feels like a more of a destination rather than an off ramp.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what, that's what we do at Change Point Advisors is help you design what you want. And that takes thinking, that takes reflection. It's not an easy that's, that's a, you know, a right brain activity. You have to let it percolate. You have to think about what brings you joy, what brings you energy. You have to think about these deeper questions. And if you can start to be tuned into that earlier, and think, Well, what else, you know, feeds my soul? What else is I like my job? You know, I get a lot out of my job. But what else? What other things are enjoyable, you know, to me, and who do I want to spend time with? How do I like to spend my time? Those are all really good questions to think about, and also in relation to career, what do I want my life? Legacy to be down the line. What do I want to have accomplished? I mean, that gets into career management, which is important for everybody. And in particular, if you're experiencing imposter syndrome, you know, what are you doing? What is your work today? Is it the right work? And what would be ideal for you. What would you love, and how do you get that? And sometimes I don't know you're the expert. Sometimes I think imposter syndrome happens and self-doubt happens, because maybe you're not in the right thing.

Kim Meninger

That’s right. Mm-hmm, you're right. So it, it's, there's an element of liberation that comes to with thinking, Oh, I get to actually do something that brings me joy and purpose and uses my skills in a different way that can bring a lot more confidence. I think that's a really good, good way to frame it, and it also makes me think about we're, we're in this moment in history where there is a lot more flexibility and creativity than ever before. So I'm seeing a lot of people, and maybe it's because they're working moms. There's a lot of reasons that are driving this change, but of people, sort of in parallel, having a side hustle or something that they're kind of expecting will gradually transition into their next like their encore career, right?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yes, and that's so fan, I think that's fantastic, right? When I was in, you know, starting out working, you just worked all the time, and it was a different world. But you just, you, you just worked, you know, and you didn't really think about a side hustle or another way to use your skills or abilities. You just, you were really highly focused on building the career that you are in. And sometimes it's not the right career, frankly. But, yeah, I think today, people are becoming more attuned to, you know, people want to have a more holistic they want to live their life more fully. And there, there's, you know, we only have a finite amount of time, but in the, in the day and in the year. And so that's another actually interesting activity that I'll sometimes have my clients do is think about today. How much do you work? Okay, let's say you work 35 and a half hours a week, or you work 50 hours a week. When you stop working, you're going to get all that time back, and what are you going to do with that time? And if someone doesn't have a plan very often, early on, it feels great. You have freedom, you have autonomy. You can sleep, you can travel, you can go out, wherever, you do whatever you want. But what starts to happen is, if you don't have a plan, or you're not exploring a variety of things that feel meaningful for you, people can start to feel bored, and they can start to feel like they have too much time on their hands. And I will tell you that research shows that the stress that you feel when you think you don't have enough time, you know, you can't squeeze it all in. You can't work in the kids and all these, you know, all these other things. Can't exercise when you're that level of stress is identical that the stress you feel when you have too much time on your hands and you feel bored and you feel irrelevant and you're not making an impact and you're not using your strengths, that that becomes very stressful too. So there's a balance in between there, and it's hard to get to that. It's hard to craft that unless you've thought about it and you're able to be intentional about what you're doing.

Kim Meninger

That's fascinating. I mean, it makes perfect sense, but it also it's unfortunate because you feel like you can't win either way, right now, right?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Well, time is a construct. And, you know, think about, you know, being conscious. How do you want to spend your time?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, well, you're also making me think about the fact that we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic as well, and that for many people, work is their social network as well, and so that connectedness that we feel to our colleagues can make it even harder to think about what comes next, because we're afraid of not just losing our identities and our work, but also what sustains us socially.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Absolutely, that is a huge piece that people don't often think about. And you know when, you know when somebody leaves full-time work, there are a lot of gains. You know, I talked about freedom and autonomy, and you don't have to sit in meetings anymore, and all those things that are annoying go away. But there are a lot of losses. And there are visible losses, like, Oh, you don't have. Income anymore, and you don't have benefits, and you don't have, you know, your, your title, right? But you also have built in structure, and you have built in social connection when you're working that you may not really recognize until it's gone, and that's when the sense of belonging and being needed and having 500 emails a day coming into you, and particularly if you're a leader, and you're at a point where you're mate, you're a decision maker, and you're guiding a business, or you have a team of people that works for you, and that's gone, you know, there's an emotional piece that goes with that, and so, you know, you have to, kind of, if you think about it, and if anybody's listening to this podcast, and they're, they're already ahead of the game, because they're going to recognize, yes, I'm going to get a lot of awesome things when I retire and step away from the stress of a full time job. But there's also going to be these other things I have to fill in. I am going to have to build connections. Who am I going to spend time with? If all your friends are still working or your spouse is still working, where are you going to spend your time and who are you going to be with? And there's a really good TED talk. I don't know if you've seen Robert Waldinger, the TED talk about what makes a good life. Oh, it's fantastic. And this is about the longest running study on happiness. It's been going since like 1920 it's at Harvard, and they've kept up with these people. It's really very interesting. But it Robert Waldinger, it's called What Makes a Good Life. And, spoiler alert, what makes a good life is connection with other people so but they've done all this research, and people from all different it started out as just men, because it was in the 30s, but now it's broadened to men and women and human connection is the most important piece in having a sense of happiness and, and as you said, loneliness is an epidemic, and that can be dealt with if you're aware of it and you have tools to go and make connections.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and I think that one of the themes that I'm hearing from what you're saying is just the ability to use that free time more intentionally. Because on the one hand, we're so aware of what we don't have time for, and how pressured we are to get things done and, and we, we sort of crave this downtime and free time that never comes, or it doesn't come until much later. But on the other hand, we're creatures of habit and routine, and it's very easy for us to just fit into the structure it there's a comfort, even if it's not necessarily, you know, our ideal place, way to live.

Kim Meninger

There’s a comfort that comes from knowing I have a meeting at 10am this morning, and then I'm going to do this, and I'm going to and so you're talking about a world in which you get to decide what's on your calendar at 10am, right? Whichever. Well, they have not had that freedom for a long time.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yeah, and I will tell you that is one of the number one challenges that my clients have when we start working together and they are or if they've been let go from a job, because I also work with people who are in Job Transition. They're not necessarily at the end of their career, but they, you know, there's been some corporate action, and they've stepped out of their role, and suddenly they have all this time. They're not going to the office. So structure disappearing is really hard. It's freeing at first, and then it's like, how, what am I doing? And that, that can, that can cause a lot of stress, so anticipating those things is important, and having tools to figure out how am I going to spend my time, you know, is something you can think about right now.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I think it's such a great idea to be proactive in, in the little time we do have right now. I know we don't have much, but I think that it's worth carving out time for some of the reflection and planning that you're talking about, because we're all going to get there. That's one thing that unites all of us, is we're all going to age and so to, you know, the sooner we can start thinking about these things, the better position will be when the time comes.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah.

Kim Meninger

Yeah. Well, Sarah, I could talk to you all day, but for people listening, who are really, you know, loving what you're saying and want more of you, how can they learn more about your work and what, what you're doing out in the world?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Yeah, absolutely. So we have a website. First of all, change point. Advisors, and it's A-D-V-I-S-O-R-S, so Change Point Advisors dot com and so you can go to the website, you can see more about our programs, you can see more about me. And there's a way to get connected. There's a button you can press that says, you know, at info, at change point, and we can be in touch that way. I'm on LinkedIn, and I welcome, you know, LinkedIn connections from folks. I'm always happy to have a quick phone call or a Zoom call, if somebody is in, you know, they're at an inflection point in their life, and they're in moving into a transition, and they want to, you know, find out about coaching. That's our expertise. And I'm always glad to have a phone call with somebody, or, you know, a meeting. And so I'm on LinkedIn, Sarah Friedel O'Connell. You gotta, there's 1,000,001 O'Connell's out there, especially in the Boston area. So my he gotta use my middle name, which is F, R, I, E, D, E, L, L. So Sarah Friedel O'Connell, I'm on LinkedIn. We've got our website. You can also email me. Sarah S, A, R, A, H, at Changepoint Advisors dot com people are welcome to send me a note. And occasionally I do free webinars and just about this topic and a little more detail, and those are for anybody, and I can be glad to, you know, connect with anybody who's interested in just attending a webinar, and I answer questions and things like that so.

Kim Meninger

And if anybody's interested in bringing a webinar to another group too, right?

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Absolutely, absolutely. So we provide, so I provide webinars to the corporations that I work with, and the corporations often are, you know, I'm usually working with their C suite of folks, but I do a 45 minute lunch and learn for all their employees, and that's something that I offer up, and I usually offer it up for free to companies that want to help their employees think about the nonfinancial aspects of life in retirement, right? Because we are taught to start saving financially, start saving for retirement now, but we're not taught about the nonfinancial aspects, right? Who are you going to be? How are you going to spend your time? All those questions that we've been talking about, and that dovetails perfectly with the financial training that people provide at work. They get, you know, they usually get a, 401K, Plan A, 403b plan something, but they don't get the life planning. So we do this free webinar to help people think about beginning now to structure their life. You know, for what's next? What do they want? Because it's an opportunity. It's probably the first time in our lives we don't have to go to work right? Hopefully that day will come and or you can work less, and it's, it's the first time, you know, what are you going to do, and you have this wonderful chance and opportunity to build the life that you want to build.

Kim Meninger

That's so inspiring. Sarah, thank you so much for bringing your expertise and insights to us. I love the work you're doing, and I'm really grateful to have you here today.

Sarah Friedell O’Connell

Well, thank you so much, Kim, it's been a pleasure. I've really enjoyed this.