Is an MBA the Right Choice for You?

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we explore whether to pursue an MBA. My guest this week is Ellin Lolis, founder of Ellin Lolis Consulting and a career coach who’s spent more than a decade helping professionals tell their stories, clarify their goals and navigate the competitive MBA admissions process.

Ellin shares her journey from working behind the scenes in admissions to building a thriving global consulting practice. Together, we unpack how to decide if an MBA really fits your goals, when it can open doors and when it might not be the best use of your time and money. Ellin also shares practical advice on shaping a clear career narrative, what admissions teams truly look for and how to avoid common traps like over-credentialing to fill a confidence gap.

About My Guest

Ellin Lolis is the founder of Ellin Lolis Consulting, one of the most successful MBA admissions firms in the world, with a 98.9% success rate helping applicants get into programs like Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton.

But her work goes far beyond résumés and test scores. Ellin is a master of storytelling, helping ambitious professionals find the clarity, confidence, and voice they need to land their dream MBA—and build meaningful, purpose-driven careers afterward.

A passionate writer turned entrepreneur, she’s built a seven-figure business by doing things differently: leading with honesty, prioritizing depth over polish, and redefining what leadership can look like.

~

Connect with Ellin:

Websites: www.ellinlolis.com and www.myadmitcoach.com

~

Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:

Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.

Learn more about the Leading Humans discussion group

Join the Slack channel to learn from, connect with and support other professionals.

Join the Facebook group.

Schedule time to speak with Kim Meninger directly about your questions/challenges.

Connect on LinkedIn

Websites: https://kimmeninger.com

Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Ellin. It's so great to have you here today, and I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Ellin Lolis

Well, thank you, Kim, and thanks for everybody listening. It's a pleasure to be here today. So my name is Ellin Lolis. I founded Ellin Lolis Consulting a little over 10 years ago, right out of college, I didn't have another job, so I was like, Well, I was like, Well, I got to make a job for myself. And I had worked in admissions as my work study job during college, analyzing applications. Also, I come from a family of writers, so I love to write. Had entered, you know, writing competitions. Had some poetry published in very, not impressive places. But, you know, just for kind of a hobby. And so I did a Fulbright in Brazil. And while I was down there, I worked kind of helping people put together applications to go to the US to study STEM degrees. Because at the time, they were trying to get more people from Brazil to the US to study STEM and then come back and share all that knowledge locally and really enhance the stem ecosystem. I was like, wow, that's such a cool project. I love that, you know, let's get working on it. Unfortunately, you know how bureaucracy is. It never got off the ground, but it really unlocked this passion in me that, like, wow, there's this whole world of helping people I knew the other side of admissions, but I never realized that there are people who help you be more competitive in admissions. So a couple of people reached out to me and said, Hey, can you help me with this? Yeah, I guess I can. I know what I'm doing. And so I helped them, and they got in, which was fantastic. And then their friends asked me if I could help them, and then their friends asked me. And then, you know, here we are, 10 plus years later, we've worked with people on almost every continent. Got a team of around 15 people, and we really work with helping people unlock their story. So I also completed a career coaching certification during this process, and I also do offer career coaching in parallel, because what would happen is a friend would go through the admissions process with us and say, you know, this was transformational. It really helped me build confidence, realize what my goals are. Clarify this. My sister wants to do it, but she doesn't want to apply for an MBA. So I started to kind of create this methodology to help people similarly going through the process, but when they don't have the MBA as an end goal. So it's really turned into something that I think, hopefully helps people think a lot about what they want to do with their lives, clarify their goals, clarify their career narratives, but also build confidence. Because I think that's one of the most important things during a process like this, is to really say, You know what, I have something cool to share with the world, and I'm doing okay.

Kim Meninger

That is so fascinating. And I agree with you. I think we tend to think about it from the admin. From the admission side, but not the, the other side of the table. And I'm going to ask you a very selfish question right now, do you help kids about around college or just MBA? Just MBA?

Ellin Lolis

I never got into college. I would love to, it's on the it's, it's on the radar. It's on our radar for the future. But with MBA, unfortunately, fortunately and unfortunately, it kept us so busy that we haven't gotten there yet. But no, at the moment, we don't do college admissions.

Kim Meninger

All right. Well, I will keep in mind the fact that you do this work, that there are people out there that do this work. When my 15-year company is ready to start…

Ellin Lolis

Absolutely, it's so helpful. I didn't have somebody helping me go through this. I was just, you know, at Barnes and Noble, studying for the SAT, you know, I had a teacher who was like, Well, I can check your essay if you want. And I realized now, like, Wow, if I had had an admissions consultant, I would have had a lot more options available to me. And I sent applications I now know I never should have sent. I didn't have a story that was compatible with the story I was trying to sell. It wouldn't have made any sense. So now I know that when I sent that application to Stanford, it was never going to work out, like, I told the completely wrong story. They were never going to take that seriously. But if somebody had said, like, Listen, this is not a good idea, what you seem more interested in this you have a good story in this area. Let's, let's position you this way. Who knows?

Kim Meninger

Well, you know, you're making me think about this from different angles too, because I think there is a way in which we, and especially when it relates to the MBA in particular, and you can tell me if this resonates with you, I got an MBA many years ago, and I've had people ask me, you know, should I get an MBA? And I think that there's a way in which a lot of people have internalized this belief that it's a, it's like a requirement to advance to certain levels. And I think that if you don't know why you're doing it, you may not be as confident about going applying for the program, you may not be as clear in your story. So having someone like you, seems really important for that too.

Ellin Lolis

Hopefully. I mean, that's, that's what I try to do. But, yeah, I agree with you that an MBA doesn't make sense for everyone. And there are calls that I sit on with people and I say, listen your goals. I actually had a call with someone yesterday. You know, he's in his mid-30s. He wants to switch industries, and you know, he's in a really good position. And he's got a great CV, so taking two years off, spending $200,000 to then be 37 and trying to find a job when he's got a great network, as you know, if you want to do an MBA, and you think it sounds fun, great. You know, that sounds great, but I don't think you need it to reach these goals, and it might end up sending you, setting you back a little bit, because you're going to be 37 years old, graduating from an MBA with a lot more experience than they typically hire at so you really have to think about kind of, does it add value to your career? And there's also certain career goals that you know just it's not designed for that.

Kim Meninger

Can you say more about this? Because I think this is a really good opportunity to give people listening a sense of kind of when, when does it make sense to do it? And when are there other situations where you think maybe it's not the best choice, or, you know, maybe you just want to think a little bit more carefully about it?

Ellin Lolis

I think the number one that I would say is, is kind of this gray area. Is entrepreneurs, right? People who don't love their job and want to be entrepreneurs, I think the MBA can add tremendous value. It can open up a lot of doors. It can give you that credibility. It can help you with funding and networking. So for a lot of people, that makes sense. But I've also worked with clients who say, I have this really, really clear idea. I know what I want to do now, and I have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to do it. It's like, great, go talk and see if and see if you can find funding. If you can find funding, do this, you know, that's what the MBA is going to help you do. And I've had clients who went through that process. We, you know, clarified their goals, clarified what they wanted to do, their business, plan the structure, and then they went and got, you know, $20 million in funding. And I said, you know, don't turn that down. I don't think the MBA makes sense anymore. You can do an executive MBA later on, if you really feel like you need the credential, and you'll have built something by then. But also, you know, I one of the main things is, like people who want to work in academia, academia, an MBA is really a professional degree. It's designed to help you get ahead in your career. So, you know, consulting, tech, the corporate world. So if you want to do something outside of the corporate world, like maybe you want to work in, like an advertising agency, for example, not to say that an MBA couldn't help you, especially if you're at that high level of management, but it's probably not going to be the most valued thing in your industry and academia as well, unless you want to be a business school professor, which usually they kind of hire a little bit more from, from the market, not always, but a lot of times they do. It might not be the most helpful path for you.

Kim Meninger

I think that's a really helpful way to frame it. And once again, I think that there is this feeling of, if I want to be the best, right? I want to be, you know, I'm a high performer, and I really, I want to do the right thing that's going to get me to the top, then I need an MBA. But I also think there's a way in which maybe imposter syndrome shows up here too of I'm not good enough, and so I just need to keep, keep getting degrees and keep studying and right? So it almost feels like a way of filling a void, rather than a path to a goal.

Ellin Lolis

I can totally see that. And there, there are some clients that I've seen that are serial students, right? They've done three master's degrees, and then they come to me and they say, want to do an MBA. You have no work experience, like, it's going to be really tricky to convince an MBA admissions committee that you're a good fit, because what are your career goals at this point? What do you want to do? You know, you're in your 30s, and you've never worked a real job, not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know this might not make sense for you, and I think it is that, like, Okay, if I have enough credentials, if I have enough stamps on my on my resume, I'm going to be good enough, and not to discount how powerful a stamp like that can be. You know, especially like if you're an international student and you want to work in the US, for example, having a degree from a top US university is going to give you credibility, because people recognize it in a way that they might not recognize that your home university is really, really good, or a local company is really, really good, but there's a lot of ways to reach success without, without an MBA for sure as well.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and you know, I think that there are other types of education these days that might actually be a little bit less expensive, more efficient. I know, when I went through my MBA program, I went part-time, and I was all in person, and this was, you know, I'm dating myself now, let's see. It was like 15, 17, years ago when I graduated. Nowadays, there are a lot more formats for education with a lot of the online resources and so and there are smaller, more customized, almost certification programs and things like that. So maybe you can actually do something that's a little more targeted, rather than going through an extensive MBA program. How do you help people think about which path down [Yeah] path is the right one?

Ellin Lolis

I'm glad you brought that up, because it's so true, like, there's online MBAs, there's hybrid MBAs, there's part-time MBAs, there's full-time, there's executives. So there really is an option, I think, for everyone. But also, I was working with a client last year, and she's a single mom, and she really wanted to transition her career from working as kind of a scrum master, agile expert to really working with AI. This is about a year ago, and she saw, you know, this is changing everything. I really want to get into that. So we applied for some tech MBAs, and then we were talking about it, and she's like, you know, this is going to be really difficult financially. Of course, it's really expensive, and also to manage this with my kids going to class, you know, it's gonna, I'm gonna be very absent mom for a year. And so we looked into other programs and found this incredible online program in AI and machine learning that's really more of a technical program designed to make you an operator. So instead of like, oh, AI is an important part of business, and let's talk about AI applications in business. Let's help you really understand, like, how these models are working, how they function. Help you create them. Help you be that kind of, I guess, point person within a company. And that worked really, really well for her goals. And so she ended up going to that program. She got a scholarship. It worked really well, and she can stay home with her kids, and, you know, it works much better for her work-life balance. And I think the, the key question to ask yourself is where do you want to go? What do you want to get out of this? Because an MBA is not the goal. An MBA is a step towards a goal. It's a tool to help you reach something bigger. So people who say to me, oh, I want to do an MBA to figure out what I want to do in life, like, let's take a step back. Let's figure this out that is not a great idea for you. So, really thinking, you know, what do I want to get out of this? Where do I want to be in five years? Where do I want to be in 10 years? What kind of career do I want to have in terms of the industry, in terms of what it looks like with work-life balance? And then figure out what kind of program, if any program, will help you get to that. And you're absolutely right. A lot of the schools have these shorter programs, these more technical programs now that can really help you build those gaps, or fill those gaps and build the credibility in the area that you want to work in.

Kim Meninger

I'm so glad you brought that up, too, because I had actually made a note to myself to ask you about that there are people who are kind of hoping that the MBA will help them figure out what they want. It's kind of like, almost like a really expensive career coaching model. That is not the, you know, the most cost-effective investment in determining what you want to be when you grow up.

Ellin Lolis

Exactly, if you're young and someone's paying for it, go for it, you know, like, why not? But for the rest of us, yeah, it's a really expensive way to kind of soul-search. And the other thing with the MBA too is that once you get to class, once you get to campus, really, from day one, you're starting recruitment. They expect you to have a pretty clear plan and already start thinking about internships, already start prepping for those internships, signing up for, for interviews. You know that recruitment cycle really starts from day one. So if you get to campus and you say, I want to spend the entire first year figuring out what I want to do, you're really too late to take advantage of all of those opportunities not to say you can't shift, or that your mind won't change a little bit, but it's not really set up to have this moment of self-discovery again. You might shift a little bit, but there's a lot of things that you're going to miss out on, and a lot of opportunity. Opportunities that you might not be able to take advantage of if you come in with that kind of mindset.

Kim Meninger

I think that's a really important consideration, too. And you know, one of the things that I'm wondering about is, how competitive are these programs now, given that there's a lot more flexibility is, is it hard for people to get into MBA programs these days? I mean, obviously it's going to be dependent on the individual, but generally speaking, what are the numbers telling us about the popularity of MBA programs?

Ellin Lolis

So MBAs were MBA applications were up 12% last year, and they've been steadily rising for the last three years. During the pandemic, there was a little bit of a hiccup, I think we could say. And like, especially the year right after the pandemic, it went down just a little bit, but then numbers have been up, and last year there was a really large increase in those numbers. So I think the demand for MBAs is steady. You know, we'll kind of have to see how that with the job market and things like that, if that continues to hold. But how hard is it to get into one? I mean, again, it depends a lot on the program. You know, some of those online or hybrid programs, they might not get as many applications, so they might be a little bit less competitive. Whereas, if we're looking like, you know, Harvard or Stanford, you know, a lot of times we're looking at an admissions rate of between five and 10% so it's quite challenging to get into one of those.

Kim Meninger

And for people who because not everyone, and maybe I'm thinking to myself, and you can probably give me more better data than this, but a lot of people do take a break. Break in between college and going back for an MBA, right? They might have some work experience before just going straight from university into an MBA program. So what's important? Let's say it's been years since you thought about your transcript and your grades and things like that, right? I mean, like, what? What's the what's, what are they looking for? What is it really about your, you know, your GMAT and your, your transcript, or is it Are they looking for something, you know, a little bit less quantitative?

Ellin Lolis

Yeah, it's a, they always say it's a holistic process. Well, that can be a little bit annoying it is to in the sense of like, you know, they are looking at multiple different factors. So your work experience is really important. The MBA is really a professional degree, and it's designed to help you advance in your career, right? So one of the key things that they're going to look at is, since college, what have you done professionally? What jobs have you worked? What's been your progression? You know, have you been able to consistently get promoted? Have you delivered good results? You know, the kind of the caliber of the company that you're working at can be a factor in the sense. And that doesn't mean that if you don't work at a, you know, Fortune 500 that you shouldn't apply. But, you know, there's a certain understanding that these really top-tier companies are very hard to get into. So if he was good enough to get into this company, okay, you know, he must be pretty good that kind of already gives a thumbs up. Then they're going to look at your transcripts and your GMAT. That is really important because that's a great way for us to determine your quantitative abilities and your academic preparedness for the program. You know, it is school. The end of the day. I do like to tell people that and remind them that. So they want to make sure that you're going to do well in your courses. They want to make sure you're going to pass right. So it's really important too, that to show strong quantitative abilities as well. And then they're going to look at your essays, your letters of recommendation and your interviews as well. So the recommendation is really important because it's the only time they really get an outsider's view of your strengths and weaknesses. And then the essays in the interview are really where you get to tell your story, right? So your transcripts, your grades, your career, that only tells part of the story right? What you bring to the table the human side, those experiences that you've had that have shaped you, the leadership style that you're crafting, the impact that you want to make in the world. All of those stats don't really tell that story, so sharing that story is what really makes it come alive. And you know, Harvard came out with an article a couple years ago that about 80% of the applications that they receive are fully qualified, and so that's what ends up being around 8,000 applications. Narrowing that down to 1,000 is based on story, right? Who tells a good story, who shares their motivations, who shows that, that personal richness that they can bring to the class that nobody else can. So that story aspect, I think, is something that people overlook a little bit, but it's so important.

Kim Meninger

And that's something that you help them with. It sounds like from your intro, that you help them kind of pull out the right threads or pieces that are going to be important to delivering the message that they want to deliver.

Ellin Lolis

Yeah, absolutely. So we do a goals planning, which I would suggest everyone do, especially if you're in your mid-20s to early 30s, to really kind of help people think, you know, where am I going? What are my short-term goals? What are my long-term goals? Why do I want to pursue these goals? What's the impact that I want to make? And that's something that's really helpful because, again, it's a professional degree, so the schools want to see that you have a strong plan for how you're going to use the MBA to grow in your career, to reach specific targets, because it makes them look good, too. So it's important that you know everyone's a win-win for everyone. And then from there, we're working on what we call a personal brand exercise, so that allows us to go through everything that's happened in your life, and we ask, you know, dozens and dozens of questions about meaningful child experiences. And you know, what you're known for at work, what your some of your weaknesses and setbacks have been. And that really allows us to draw out those stories that say, okay, you know, this person is really, really strong in these areas, and this is kind of that golden thread that connects everything together. So we're really going to position you in this way and bring this evidence to tell that story, and then we also understand what some of our setbacks are as well, what some of the weaknesses are as well, and we can adjust for those. But during that process, I think one of the things that I love is that people look back at things, and they remember things that they completely forgotten about because, you know, it happened 10 years ago. But also they say, you know, people care about that that's important that, you know, I never realized that there was any value in that. So at the end of the process, a lot of people say, like, you know, I'm feeling a lot more prepared. Because at the beginning I thought I want to do this, but maybe I'm not that impressive, and now I realize I've done some cool stuff. I'm actually a pretty cool applicant, and so that's always really nice as the outcome, but it also gives us that clarity. You know, when you're pitching any product, you're pitching any, you know, personal brand, you can't say that you're everything to everyone. You really have to limit it and say, This is what I'm good. This is what I bring to the table.

Kim Meninger

That’s such an important process. I would say for everyone like you said, not just people who are applying to an MBA program. As it relates to the MBA program, specifically, what I'm thinking about is that the program itself can be a time that triggers imposter syndrome, because you're suddenly surrounded by a lot of other students who you deem a lot more impressive than you are, right? And especially some of those competitive programs where you know maybe you've been out of the classroom for a while, and it's a humbling experience to try to get back into the swing of things again. So there can be a way in which your confidence can be tested in those moments. And I think really the, the way in which you're helping them to think about their, their strengths, their accomplishments, which we don't often take time to reflect on, seems to me to be a great way to establish a, you know, positive foundation to build on and hopefully get them through some of the, the challenges as well.

Ellin Lolis

Hopefully, yeah, that's the intention and that I always tell people, go back and look at this. You know, if you're in business school and you're thinking, man, everyone's so impressive, and you're absolutely right, people get to Canvas. Say, how did I get in? You know, go back and read your application, read those materials. Remember that you belong here. But yeah, it's very, you know, it's a it can be a very startling experience, because all of a sudden, you know, you're among the 500 to 1,000 best people in the world at that school, but I think it's always really helpful to remember, you know, I got in for a reason, and I belong here, and I deserve to be here just as much as everybody else does.

Kim Meninger

And do you help them at all with how to maximize the experience once they get there? Like one of the things that I think I did not do effectively as an undergrad, because I was young and probably, you know, very anxious, and I was a first-generation college student, so I didn't have people kind of telling me tips and things for, for what to do. But one of the things that I wish I had done differently back then was to really connect with my professors, and just be more engaged in the learning experience, as opposed to just kind of going through the classes and, and so I wonder too, are there, are there things that you advise people to do once they're in the program, to really make the most of it, whether that's from, you know, getting the most out of the school, you mentioned some of the resources, the internships, and even just maximizing the, the network that which is often like, a big part of the overall value of the experience,

Ellin Lolis

Absolutely, yeah, one of the things I think that we talk a lot about is, you know, of course, take advantage of everything, but go in with a plan. Because I think one of the things is FOMO. That's one of the biggest problems. And I think FOMO leads to burnout because, you know, it's a smorgasbord of opportunities. You know, you've got networking, you've got parties, you've got clubs, you've got different classes and so really encouraging them. You know, let's think about what are your priorities. Let's think about, you know, what kind of things you want to really focus on. And you can always add more, but don't go in your first semester and join 10 clubs and take all advanced classes and have people over every single night. You know, it's, it's not going to be sustainable. You're going to burn yourself out. And I tell them stories of people who have burned themselves out. You know, it has happened. Some people are no, no, I'm the exception. I'm like, I really hope that's true. I really do. But, you know, tell them stories of people have come back and been like, yeah, it was too much. It was too much to really say, you know, let's have, let's have some focus. Because I think that's the number one thing. Contact with the professors is something that, you know, the schools are really good at facilitating, and so I really encourage them, you know, go to orientation, pay a lot of attention to orientation. They're going to tell you how to navigate that, con that context, because some schools have, you know, more open connection with professors. Other schools have a little bit less connection with professors. And then I always tell them, you know, it never hurts to ask. It never hurts to go after an opportunity that, that you want, as long as you're polite, go for it. Ask. You know, the worst case scenario, you get a no, and you already have a no. So if you want to found a club, or you want to ask a professor to mentor you, or you want to see if somebody's maybe interested in being your co-founder for a startup. Ask, you know, you never know what, what exists and what opportunities are out there if you don't go for it.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I think that's a really great point, too. I'm a big believer in the cliche or quote, right, that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. [Yes, you do.] And I love what you're saying too about pacing yourself, because there is a way in which that FOMO or, or maybe even enthusiasm, right, can, can establish an unsustainable pace that can make it really hard to meet all of the, the obligations. And if you're gonna it is…

Ellin Lolis

It’s two years, you know, it's two years, if it was a six-month program, you know, okay, maybe a little burnout is worth it at this point to get your money's worth. But you know, it's two years of your life, and you're not working on just one goal. You're working on multiple goals. You want to get a, a good job. You want to recruit successfully, you want to build your network. You want to take all of these classes. So reconciling all of those goals at the same time as well definitely takes a little bit of practice, but also, I think, a lot of consideration in terms of how to do that correctly.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, and I want to go back just for a second, because I was thinking about this too, as we're talking you have a really powerful perspective on what what's I don't want to say the right because that makes it sound like there's one right way to do this, but essentially, how to think about whether an MBA program is, is right for you at this moment. Are there other people that people listening might want to consider reaching out to, to as part, as part of their goal planning, or even just to kind of assess whether an MBA is the right path for them? Are there other advisor types that you would recommend that they reach out to, like whose voices does it make sense to listen to as you're thinking about this, because everyone's going to have a different opinion? A lot of it's going to be biased in their own experience, right?

Ellin Lolis

Yeah, I think that. That's why it's important to get a multitude of perspectives, but not too many, right? It's kind of like when people are writing their essays, you could send this to 20 people, and everyone's going to like something different and hate something different, and if you try to incorporate all of their feedback, it's going to be a huge mess. So you need to be kind of cautious and mindful. I mean, I think an MBA consultant can be a really good place to start, because a lot of us do like strategy calls before you get started. So, for example, we offer an option to do just the strategy part, and then if it makes sense, let's continue and do the rest of the consulting. I think another option is a career coach in your area. So if you are in healthcare and you want to figure out how to build a healthcare career, talk to a healthcare, you know, a healthcare-focused career coach. They can be really, really helpful in guiding you through those steps in your industry, in your specific context, and then talk to people in your network who have done what you want to do and who have gone to places that you want to go, or mentors, you know, I would say like talking to friends and family can be good kind of for that emotional support and to maybe validate ideas and see, you know, but your mom or your partner might not understand exactly how it works in your career path. They might, but they also might not. So, you know, being careful, and your friends too, they might be like, Yeah, go for it. You know, this is a great opportunity, but they might not have all the context to give you the best advice. So that's why I think, you know, use them for emotional support and to bounce ideas. But I think really using those people in your field and people who are really trained and understanding the value of these degrees, and who it benefits and who it doesn't, can be really helpful, and ideally, kind of a combination of all of those resources, I think would be a great path for someone to follow.

Kim Meninger

I like that. I think that's a great idea. And then I have one sort of final question for you that I'm thinking about in the context of the day and age in which we're talking, how does ChatGPT factor into the essay process? Right? Are there some do's and don'ts to think about?

Ellin Lolis

It's interesting that you should bring that up. In two weeks, I'm actually launching a new company that is an MBA tool that will guide people step by step through the admissions process. So over the last, you know, 10 plus years, I've built my methodology. I built a course that I ended up never launching. And so what we've done is translate this course, and then I worked with some Silicon Valley experts to say, you know, ChatGPT offers some good stuff, but it can definitely be a little bit generic. And I think the problem is not necessarily that it's not a good tool, but it's trained on the internet, not trained on admissions resources, and a lot of people don't know how to prompt it correctly. So in our platform, what we said is, okay, let's work and build an AI agent that's specifically designed to help people brainstorm their essays, work on their essays that's trained on, I think it's 5 million words and 10,000 application documents. So it really understands what an MBA person admissions committee is looking for. It has sample essays, things like that. But then also, it has a lot of prompts. I worked with a lot of prompt engineers sent countless hours, you know, here's the prompt that you want to use. This is going to give you the good results. Because, you know, help me write an essay on leadership, is going to get something very different than a detailed prompt with, you know, exercises that back that up. So I think you know, if you want to use ChatGPT, you can, you need to be persistent, the first result is probably not going to be very good. But if you do want to check out our tool, it's called my admin coach, my academic coach dot com, and hopefully can be a helpful resource for people, but in terms of how it's changing. I mean, I would say that, like admissions, they have, they're crazy to think that people aren't using AI, right? So most of the schools have policies now, you know, we know you're going to use AI, that's fine, just don't copy and paste. Just don't plagiarize using AI essentially make it somewhat original work. And I completely agree with that. I don't think that. I should take the place of doing the work. It should just help us do it better. We should think of it as a, an editor or a co-creator, to take what we can do and help us do it better.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I think that's a really good way of thinking about it. It's, it's a little more complicated than this, but I also like to think about is we still need to learn math, even though we have calculators, right?

Ellin Lolis

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, you know, we still need to understand, be able to look at a piece of writing critically and understand if it makes sense, and understand if it works. And, you know, chat, GPT, I always say, like, you know, it's, it's kind of like painting a portrait of a person without seeing them. So if you just put in some random prompt, you're going to get some kind of generic thing, or asking, you know, for a Gemini to create a headshot of you, but not putting in a selfie, right? So you need to give it the right inputs, and you need to be able to, to use the tools correctly, but also be able to analyze them and be able to adjust them. So, yeah, we need to be able to work with it. We need to be able to have those basic skills.

Kim Meninger

Yeah, I really appreciate that, because I do think that there are a lot of unanswered questions, or just, you know, ways in which is going to evolve that we're not quite sure what the future is going to look like. And so it's great to it's great to hear from an insider on how it kind of fits into the process, and you've given us so many helpful insights and tips, Ellin, I really appreciate it. I think this is a really important conversation that I haven't had before, so I'm excited to share it, and I would love to also ask you, you shared you know your, your site to this tool. But where else can people find you if they're interested in your support and want to continue to follow you?

Ellin Lolis

Yeah, absolutely. So you can find my website at Ellin Lolis dot com. If you're interested in working with us for career coaching or MBA admissions, you can sign up to work with us there, and then you can also follow me on LinkedIn. I also have a YouTube channel where I post tips on MBA applications, different parts of the process. So those are the best places to find me.

Kim Meninger

Wonderful. I'll make sure the links are in the show notes. And thank you so much for being here.

Ellin Lolis

Of course, thank you, Kim, and thank you to everybody listening. I hope this has been helpful, and for those of you who are thinking about an MBA, hopefully this has given you some things to think about.

Kim Meninger

Absolutely. Thanks again.