Leading Through Change & Uncertainty

In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we explore what it takes to lead through change. My guest this week is Erin Herman, keynote speaker, writer and consultant, whose mission is to help people lead with more humanity. Drawing on her experiences in both the private and public sectors, Erin shares why courage, empathy and a growth mindset are essential for navigating change.

Here we talk about what gets in the way of leading change effectively, including outdated workplace systems and cultural resistance to vulnerability. Erin offers powerful insights into the difference between confidence and self-assurance, and how a strong personal value system can be a grounding force when self-doubt or impostor syndrome creep in. We also discuss how to influence our environments at every level, not just from the top.

About My Guest

For over 20 years, Erin Herman has worked with executive teams across the globe, including Fortune 500 companies, to lead change that actually sticks. Her leadership career has taken her from the boardrooms of St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital to the global halls of the United Nations. Along the way, she’s built partnerships that created lasting impact—like securing a $300 million commitment to support pediatric research, one of the largest gifts ever made to a children’s hospital.

One of the projects she’s most proud of is the Learning Passport—a digital education platform she co-created with Microsoft and Cambridge University. It now reaches children in more than 40 countries and was named one of TIME’s 100 Best Inventions. It’s also been ranked the third most influential project in the world by PMI.

Erin has spoken at the UN General Assembly, led global initiatives across China, Finland, Italy, and South Africa, and been featured by organizations like the University of Missouri’s Bloch School of Business. But at the heart of everything she does is a single goal: helping people lead with more humanity.

Whether she’s working with C-suite leaders navigating change or high-achieving women ready to stop shrinking and start leading, her work is about creating the kind of transformation that resonates—long after the keynote ends.

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Connect with Erin:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erin-herman-97832217/

Instagram: @eebherm

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/erin.beaton.18

Podvantage Page: https://erin.podvantage.ai/

Website: https://theerinherman.com/

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Websites: https://kimmeninger.com

Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome, Erin. I am so thrilled to have you here today. I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Erin Herman

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Kim for having me today. My name is Erin Herman. I'm based in Kansas City. I have two children. I'm a wife. I'm a mother. Professionally, I am a keynote speaker, a writer, a workshop consultant, and also provide CSR consulting for NGOs around corporate partnerships and corporate strategy. I have spent my career working in both the private and the public sector. Most notably, I served as the Vice President at the United Nations Children's Fund, and then also I was a Vice President at St Jude's Children's Research Hospital with the Allsac team there. So pleasure to be here, and thanks so much for having me.

Kim Meninger

Yes, thanks for being here. You have a really interesting background, and I know that you talk about change, right? I'd love to hear more about kind of what, what your, what are the problems that you're looking to solve, and what your point of view is.

Erin Herman

Absolutely, you know, I think there are very few constants in life, but change is one of them. And a long time ago, I realized, if I'm going to get really good at being a wife, a mother, a colleague, a friend, I have to figure out how to navigate change. And when you think about you know, and I would consider myself midlife, we have been through so many different evolutions of change, from friends getting married to career changes to new roles to working in new cultures, and if you can figure out how to navigate change successfully, you're ahead of your peers by far. And so I wanted to think about how I could teach audiences through hard lessons that I've learned through research, through different experiences, but then also, ultimately, through a methodology that I put together from sitting in rooms with several different fortune 500 companies over and over again, I noticed these three skills that continue to present themselves, and they were courage, empathy and a growth mindset. And so I built those into a methodology that I take now on the road and teach organizations all over the world how to not only navigate change, but how to make it catalytic and transformational. And it's, it's a passion of mine, so that's, that's what I speak on.

Kim Meninger 

Well, it's so interesting when you talk about the number of changes that we navigate as humans throughout the course of our lives, right? It truly is one of the rare constants. So why is it so hard? What are we getting wrong?

Erin Herman 

I think that's a great question. And honestly, you know, thinking about imposter syndrome, I'll just tie it to that. You know, some people may feel that imposter syndrome is something that's wrong with them, right? People come into these new organizations. They try and change who they are, or they try and adapt to the cultures in which they work in. Now, I always talk about the difference between confidence and self-assurance, and I talk about the fact that self-assurance is something that people cannot take away from you, whereas confidence is based on external validation that can be built up beautifully, but it can also be stripped away. And so when we talk about imposter syndrome, for example, and people are saying, Hey, I'm being asked to change or I'm being asked to assimilate into this culture. You know, it's, it's, it's not a self-assurance issue. It's not a confidence issue. It's a system issue, because a lot of these work environments are, you know, designed to not promote vulnerability or not reward failure, and I talk about positive failure cultures. So many people strive for perfection, and they strive for all these things that are truly unobtainable. And so we can't change who we are. We have to lead with self-assurance. We have to be our authentic, vulnerable selves, and we have to as leaders, and, you know, executives within these professional settings, we have to look at what are the systems that we're building. Should we pivot those to make them more inclusive, to make them more accepting and to ultimately promote what I think so many of us are wanting within our workplaces, but we're not able to achieve because of these systems that are ultimately designed to hold us down.

Kim Meninger 

And I think that the emphasis on systems is really important because we're at, I hope, a bit of a transitional point in history in terms of the workplace and so, you know, depending on what generation you belong to, you've had different experiences, but a lot of people who are working today have grown up in cultures that have been told, you know, you have to check your emotions at the door, right, that there's this sort of this, this way in which we compartmentalize our humanity and. Much that even things like you just said, courage, empathy and growth mindset might be seen as fluff, and, you know, getting in the way of what really matters in the workplace. So where do you think we are in terms of responding to what you're saying?

Erin Herman 

Yeah, you know, I think, I think some organizations have really excelled at this, and I think other organizations haven't. And you know, in those environments that are still working on this, you have to ask yourself, well, what am I teaching my people? And ultimately, you're teaching them to survive dysfunction, which when you talk about the bottom line, when you want that significant return on investment, if you show up disconnected from your people, from your teams. When you take a seat at the table, it shows, it shows in the results, it shows in the team culture that you, that you're building, and so they're simultaneous, they're connected. And the people that say, Well, hey, gosh, empathy just makes you weak as a leader, I would I would argue. I beg to differ. And in fact, Forbes just named empathy as the most important skill within the workplace to exhibit. And I think if you would have asked people 15 or 20 years ago, what's the most important skill, I think it would have been a completely different mix. But our culture, our society, we are changing. I think we're choosing to change, which is phenomenal. I think we still have a long way to go when it comes to, you know, inclusion and kindness and realizing all of these, I would say soft skills that ultimately weigh on the bottom line and performance is correlated. I mean, research has shown that performance is strongly correlated to those soft skills.

Kim Meninger 

And so when we think about some of these, I appreciate your calling skills, because I think sometimes we think that you're either you're empathetic or you're not right, as opposed to it being a skill. Do you think that there is a way to sell this to organizations with leaders who have historically been skeptical about things like this, and get them to actually invest in building these skills? Or do you think that this is something where we almost have to start with or start earlier and then embed it in younger leaders, who will then take it with them over time?

Erin Herman 

Yeah, you know, I think that's a great question. I think everybody is capable of change. That's the beauty of it. And you know, when I think about myself as a manager and a leader, I didn't always possess this mindset. You know, I've gone in and I've created award-winning platforms, I've worked at the UN I've secured $300 million partnerships. I still walk into rooms and I think, Gosh, I feel like an imposter, or, gosh, I can't be too vulnerable, because people aren't going to, you know, trust in my message. And you know, we talk about people judging people, right? And you know, research has found that people judge how self-assured you are, how confident you are, within the first 200 milliseconds of you speaking, okay, so when we're talking about, you know, perception, I try and keep my tone at a very neutral, but as low as I can, you know, verbally speak with a self-assured tone, the lowest tone possible, because in the first 10 seconds or 200 milliseconds, essentially it's about the first 10 words people are judging, sizing you up, saying, is this the leader? Is this who I can trust? Is this who I can put my confidence into? And as you think about the evolution of leadership, when you start out as a young manager who has had zero experience managing somebody to every experience that has humbled you on that journey, your perception shifts. And so I don't think it's too late for anybody. I think that it requires self-awareness, it requires dialog, it requires us to be able to say no, our team members need to be seen, they need to be heard, they need to be valued at the table, and I think that is ultimately a journey that everybody is on. So I don't think we have to just focus on the millennials that are becoming the new managers. I don't think we need to focus on just the C suite and the baby boomers that are about to retire. I think it is truly a collective mix across society that we have to focus on.

Kim Meninger 

I agree. I don't think we should give up on anybody, right? I think it's, it's challenging, because sometimes I think about the fact that what we're talking about, vulnerability, empathy, courage, some of these skills are really rooted in our early childhood experiences and how. We've grown up more holistically, and we carry those experiences into the workplace. And there are a lot of people who have not had great role models for communication, for conflict management, for empathy, etc, right? So it feels to me, bigger than just building workplace skills. It's almost like we need to build these life skills, and you're seeing this everywhere now, with the way that people treat each other on social media, the ways in which our civility has declined, right? I, I wonder if you have thoughts on just the, the overall way in which this fits into society, even beyond the workplace.

Erin Herman 

Yeah, I think, you know, the stakes feel higher. I think there are more ways in which people communicate. You know, 20 years ago, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, that wasn't a thing. And, you know, iPhones, they weren't around. And so the stakes are higher. The visibility is higher. People are craving those dopamine hits, you know, instantaneously, right? And so we need to think about how we communicate with people, how we show up. And I think it actually requires more self-awareness, because the stakes are higher than they were 25-30 years ago. And I always talk about, you know, this concept of silence, and for you to be self-assured, or for you to be confidence, you have to realize that sometimes it's silent confidence, because things are going to come across your desk, or you're going to be in a conversation, or you're going to click on social media and you're going to want to react based on, you know, to your point, maybe how you were raised, or the experiences that you've navigated, but The truth be told is sometimes the power lies in the silence, the choice to walk away, to not respond. You see a lot of this on social media. People go back and forth, or they say really harsh things. You can't take that stuff back, and ultimately, you don't know what type of day somebody's having. And so I think it's just super important to remember the stakes are higher, and within that you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.

Kim Meninger 

I think that's really well said, and I also think it emphasizes the importance of controlling what you can control, which is yourself we cannot control, what other people do and how they react, what kind of a day they're having, as you said, but I'm a big believer in really connected with who you want to be, and which version of yourself are you going to be most proud of, not just in this moment, which sometimes there's that immediate gratification that comes with feeling like, you know, oh, I just, you know, I just took this person down, right? As opposed to a month from now, 10 years from now, and you look back on your life say, Did I show up in alignment with my values? Was I the person that I really, you know, was striving to be and so I think just sort of challenging each and every one of us to think about that hopefully. And I like to believe there are more of us than there are of people committed to that.

Erin Herman 

Yeah, you know, and, and I, I try and teach leaders a grounded sense of value, especially in a face of doubt, which I think oftentimes, as a leader and within these organizations, you're meant to have that sense of value. You have to keep your value system with you every step of the journey. People will respect you more for it. People will trust you more for it, and when you are true to your values, you create a sense of purpose for yourself. And so many people walk through life wondering, what is my purpose, or striving for their purpose? And I always say it's not that complicated. Write down what you value and hold on to it. Yeah, that will provide you the comfort, the, the consideration for others, the ability to change in systems that require you to evolve. That will, you know, provide you the self-assurance when those times of self-doubt creep in. And I think that's super important.

Kim Meninger 

I could not agree with you more. I think that is such a great I mean, I think about it as almost a roadmap, or, you know, we don't have a blueprint for how to live our lives. We're all kind of making it up as we go along, but the closest thing we have is those values that you're describing, and we have the choice at any given moment to ask ourselves, is what I'm about to do in alignment with my values or not, right? And, you know, real we're not always going to get it right. There are going to be times when we are, you know, exhausted or we're just too agitated or whatever the case may be, right? But, but if we keep that front of mind, we hold ourselves accountable. We're more, we're more likely to follow through. True on the behaviors that are going to reinforce those values,

Erin Herman 

Right. And, and I would also just say, you know, feeling like a fraud or talking about imposter syndrome as you're going through this doesn't, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, or having those thoughts come through and saying, Am I sticking to my values right now, or am I feeling, you know, confused, or feeling like a fraud, whatever it may be, I would say that's not a bad thing. That is self-awareness, which is essential to change, to building your value system, to listening to your intuition. And so I just, I want people to know just because you feel or your you know radar is going off, that is not a bad thing. That is self-awareness, which is essential to your growth and success.

Kim Meninger 

I’m really glad you said that. I think that even though this topic of imposter syndrome is probably more widely discussed today than ever before, there's still a way in which it feels like a personal struggle. And I think many of us have convinced ourselves that my form of imposter syndrome is the real form of imposter syndrome like that. We look around, we think everybody else has it all figured out, and they're so confident and there must be something wrong with me. And I think that's where vulnerability comes in, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on vulnerability, because there is a way in which you could be perhaps too vulnerable, right? Like, what are we talking about when we're talking about vulnerability in a workplace setting?

Erin Herman 

You know, I think about so many different workplaces that I've gone into as the new manager on the block or the new change maker. And, you know, I tell a story of one room I walked into. It was the first time I had met everyone. I had flown into town. I had met everyone, and everyone was seated in the back three rows of this huge conference room. It was like this visceral response the minute I opened the door and said, Hi, I'm Erin, nice to meet you. And you could tell they were craving vulnerability, right? Because nobody takes that type of extreme action unless they feel, hey, my wall's been up forever. But I need that connection, and so I did, I did the walk. I walked across the room. I passed row after row till I was literally right there in front of them. And I pulled up a chair and I said, this isn't a meeting for me to tell you to do more work. Or folks are getting, you know, let go, or we're completely, you know, cannibalizing everything that you all have done to date. This is who I am, and I'm going to tell you a little bit about who I am. And I started with the fact that I'm a mom, and I live in Kansas City, and, you know, this is what I enjoy doing outside, like lifting weights, that, you know, all these things that just made me human, instead of the manager. And then I said, I'd like us all to go around the room and say, who, who are you? What do you like to do? What makes your heart just skip a beat? Like, what lights you up? We saved the work talk for quite a while. And I think within those moments where you're just human, you're just vulnerable. You're just who you are. People connect with you. They want to trust you. You can get so much more out of your people, but it's a genuine, authentic connection that drives that. Whereas if you walk in and you're throwing the results out and you're saying, Hey, this is what we need to achieve, you've already lost them in the first 10 seconds, and again, you need your people to feel seen, to feel safe, to feel supported, to truly succeed.

Kim Meninger 

I love that. I think that, that is a missed opportunity in many settings, and such an important way to build that connection, because we are very as human, sensitive to power dynamics, right? When you're in a room, even I often joke that leaders don't realize how scary they are, right? Because we see ourselves as three-dimensional creatures with all the same fears, hopes, doubts that everybody else has. But then, when you're in that room with people who work for you or are part of the larger system that you're in, they're looking to you, right? They're looking they're reading your body language. They're picking up cues they're trying to understand. And so you have to create this this connection very intentionally that you're describing because otherwise there's this huge perceived chasm between them and between you, and so turning yourself into not just that leader in the room, but the mom who has the same, you know, dynamics with their kids that they have, or the, the interest that they also share, is a really humanizing way to break down some of those barriers.

Erin Herman 

Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, I would say that I always think about. Well, who would I want to work for? Who would I want to have a conversation with? Who am I most apt to listen to? Who am I most apt to connect with? And leadership really isn't that different, okay? And once we lose the veil of who we think we need to be, and we become truly who we are, it's pretty easy. It doesn't have to be over-complicated.

Kim Meninger 

Yeah. And, you know, I want to acknowledge too that a lot of people right now will often say to me, I don't have time. I would love to do that, but we don't have time. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on making time for this type of activity when everyone feels like they have more on their plates than they have bandwidth for.

Erin Herman 

Yeah, you know, I think it's two-fold, because we always have to have time for ourselves. You need that time to decompress. You need that time to say, You know what? This doesn't feel good right now. I need to take a, you know, a moment back, a step back. We don't need to overextend ourselves for anybody, because then we don't show up authentically the way we are. On the flip side, I would say, if you're so focused on results, or if you are so focused on achievements, and you forget to make time for the humanity that is amongst you. Ultimately, your results will suffer. And so you have to think about what type of team, what type of culture, what type of organization are you looking to create? And that goes back to those soft skills. If you make time for those soft skills, if you make time for the people on your team, you will actually achieve more than just charging in and thinking you have very little time to connect and trying to just ultimately achieve. It's, it's, you know, counterintuitive.

Kim Meninger 

Yeah, I also agree with that, and I'll often joke too, you're already using the time. You either use it proactively to invest in these relationships, or you use the time to clean up the mess on the other side.

Erin Herman 

Right, right. Well, and you think about, you know, this, the old CEO of Southwest Airlines or Keller, he took time to get to know every employee in his organization. I mean, it could have been five minutes in passing, and a year later, he remembers their name, he remembers the detail about their family. And if you looked at the statistics at the time that he was the leader, Southwest Airlines had the lowest turnover rate in the industry, which this is an industry plagued with turnover, they had less than 4% they had the most employees in the airline industry. They also had built a beautiful brand reputation of kindness and empathy and compassion, which, you know, I would say, we can all agree it's not the nicest airline to fly, but people you know associate southwest with kind staff, good customer service, those are all things that are passed down by the CEO, and he took a very different and proactive approach than others, and he took time to get to know people, And that had a cascading effect on his people.

Kim Meninger 

So an example like that is great because he had so much influence as the top, at the top of that organization. But do you think that this is a worthwhile endeavor for people who maybe don't feel like they have the ability to influence up, but they're, you know, managing a team of their own.

Erin Herman 

I love that question, actually, because, yes, I do. We all have a role to play. We all have a role to play. I will just re-emphasize that change is not a top-down approach. It's not a memo, it's not a five-year strategy plan. Change starts with us. We are the epitome of change every single person in the organization. You know, I talk about different exercises people can apply when they're looking at what's happening in their organizations and is it important for leadership, to show you know their role and be vulnerable. Absolutely. You know, I, with my audiences. I play this game called Why me, and I ask everybody in the audience to go around and share what role they have to play in change or in creating this environment that they want to create. But also, why is it important to them personally? And I asked the CEO to do this all the way down to, you know, the people shutting off the lights at night. And I think it's important to. Show that we all are committed to this culture. We all have a role to play, no matter our title, no matter you know, our gender, no matter any external or internal factor. We all have a role to play. And when we lead with just a little level of vulnerability, we can build trust, we build momentum and we let those walls down, and we can work more, more cohesively together.

Kim Meninger 

I love that. I'm so inspired by the idea of having that kind of agency, right? I think we often feel like we are at the mercy of others, and we have more power and influence than we think we do. Would you.. Do you have a gonna sound like a ridiculous question, but sort of a formula for thinking about whether you have done the what is possible and it's still not working, and it's time to go?

Erin Herman 

As far as, like, if you should leave your organization after a certain period of time?

Kim Meninger 

Yeah, you know, like, I'm always, I'm always trying to, you know, sort through, how much of this is within our control, and that if we sort of take some of these steps, we want to actually be the change we want to see, so to speak, versus, you know, I've exhausted my options, and I just really can't get what I need out of the system?

Erin Herman 

Yeah, you know, I feel like when, when you're afraid to challenge the status quo in your organization, like when you ask yourself, well, how do I really play into change? I. This is above my pay grade, or this isn't something I can play an active role in. It's time to go. Time to go. It's that simple, because you need to be able to have that type of safety, that type of ability to be seen and to be heard, and if you don't, and you're afraid that if you play big, you're going to be let go, or you're going to be, you know, creating these adverse reactions, then it's time to go. And I would also just say, you know, if it's Saturday morning and most kids are getting up running their I'm sorry, most parents are getting up running their kids to soccer practice, and you already have this dread in your stomach about going to work on Monday, it's time to go. Those are, you know, the, the telltale signs. And then I would say, you know, we're talking about value system and connecting to yourself. If you are working 40-60, hours a week, and you know you've got a full call schedule, you've got all these meetings, you're giving it 110% but inside, you feel incredibly disconnected to yourself. It's time to go mm, because again, you have to be connected to who you are, your values, your purpose, your intrinsic internal system and alarm bells that are saying, This feels good or this doesn't feel good, you've gotta listen to that. That's like an inner, inner guide that you can never silence that voice. And lastly, I would just say, and this is more, I think, geared towards women, but if, if you're working in a system that wasn't necessarily designed for you, and you feel that there's opportunity where you can grow and excel amazing. But if you get the sense that playing big, or, you know, stating your voice loud and proud or quiet and assertive is unwelcomed, you've gotta ask yourself that question, is this the right place for me, and it's a tough, tough question to have, but I would also say, Don't ever let your comfort zone become your cage.

Kim Meninger 

That's a really great way to frame it, and a really great message for everybody listening. And it doesn't mean you have to run to the nearest exit. You can develop it your exit strategy, take your time, do what you need to do, but recognize that this is not the place where you're going to do your best work and be your best self.

Erin Herman 

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kim Meninger 

Erin, you have brought so many amazing insights to this conversation. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about your work, stay connected with you?

Erin Herman 

Absolutely. Jump on my website, www dot the Erin Herman dot com, I have different keynotes that I speak on different cities that I'm going on tour. To little bit more about my consulting and workshop facilitation business. So please connect. Also, I'm on LinkedIn, Tiktok, Instagram, so please connect. I love to just hear also from listeners and from different audience members. You know, what are you facing right now in the workplace? What is affecting you? Is it change? Is it imposter syndrome? Is it. Uh, authenticity, vulnerability. Reach out. I respond to every single message, and I think collectively, together, we are stronger. So share you’re your, your stories, share your thoughts, and know that I will respond.

Kim Meninger 

Wonderful. Erin, thank you so much. Those links will be in the show notes and just thanks again for your work and for being here today.

Erin Herman 

Thank you so much for having me, Kim. I appreciate it.