Maximizing Relationships with Ourselves & Others

In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about the power of relationships at work, not just with others but with ourselves. Do you prioritize building relationships at work? Are you intentional about nurturing those relationships? If not, you may be missing important opportunities. My guest this week is Morag Barrett, a leadership expert and executive coach. Here we talk about how to make time for relationship-building when you’re feeling too busy to connect. We also talk about simple steps you can take to build and nurture trusted relationships. And we talk about why it’s so important to set healthy boundaries in order to have the best relationship with yourself.

About My Guest

Morag Barrett is a leadership expert, executive coach, and author with over 20 years of experience helping leaders build stronger, more meaningful workplace relationships. As the founder of SkyeTeam, she has worked with over 15,000 leaders across 20 countries, empowering them to cultivate high-performing teams and navigate the complexities of professional relationships. Morag’s work is grounded in the power of connection, and she is passionate about creating cultures of collaboration and trust, whether in-person or remote. She’s the author of Cultivate: The Power of Winning Relationships and You, Me, We, Why we all need a friend at work (and how to show up as one!) and is on a mission to help leaders—and organizations—cultures of connection in a world of disconnection.

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Connect with Morag:

LinkedIn and subscribe to newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moragbarrett/

Learn more at: https://www.skyeteam.com/blog

Listeners are invited to complete their complimentary Ally Mindset Profile: https://www.skyeteam.cloud/youmewe

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Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.

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Websites: https://kimmeninger.com

Transcript

Kim Meninger

Welcome Morag. It is such a pleasure to have you here today, and I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Morag Barrett

Ooh, the who, what, why, when, where? Well, Kim, where to start? So my career, I've realized, is not just old enough to vote. Now, it's old enough to have baby careers of its own, which probably explains why I think I'm on my fifth career. So let me summarize those five careers, 15 years in finance in the UK, working for a big bank focused on my client companies, what they did and how they organized, which meant I spent hours with cash flow forecasts, balance sheets, profit and loss, deciding if I was going to lend them millions of pounds. And what I came to realize was it didn't matter what industry, what widget or service you made, because everybody thinks they're going to get rich with their brand new idea or variation on a theme, what differentiated the successful companies, the great teams, the great leaders, wasn't just how smart they were and what they did and how they organized, but also the ones that focused on how business gets done, i.e. the power of their relationships, who we are As individuals, and how do we relate, especially when friction occurs. So that took me from my first career of finance into a career of leadership and executive development. Initially in the bank, I was providing coaching and feedback to bank managers who, let's face it, when I joined my career in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s, were all men, all old enough to be my dad, and the culture was still Mr. So and So, as the names very formal, and there I was giving them coaching and feedback on how to be better leaders. But it opened my eyes because I then moved from doing that within the banking industry to joining an American telecom company, but working in Europe. So now I move from a regional UK focus to doing the same across Europe and Asia Pacific, and realizing it doesn't matter where we come what language we may speak at the start every time when we talk about imposter syndrome, it's the relationship we have with ourselves, the relationship we have with others that cause that insidious little voice in all of us. So I moved from finance to people. I moved from banking to Telecom, and then I moved from doing that regionally in Europe, to moving to Colorado, where I've lived for the last 20 years, and doing that now globally. And I also chose to leave the confines of a corporate role that American telecom company to start Sky Team. And I remember that conversation with my husband at the time of well, we'll give it a year, see what happens. And here I am, 18 years later, with Sky Team, having now worked with probably 20,000 leaders from six continents, been to North Slope, Alaska, Chile, Peru, you name it. We've worked with leaders from different backgrounds at different stages of their career. And in between, I have birthed three boys who are now six foot tall. I have birthed three books, and I think birthing books is harder. No, I don't know. There's not a lot in it. So there's a lot of richness there, in terms of how my career has taken twists and turns as I've seized opportunities, as opposed to when I was 15, did I sit there thinking I would be running my own company in America, doing leadership and executive development? No, but that's what I found, is my passion and the magic that I bring to the world.

Kim Meninger

Thank you for sharing that, and I love you that you mentioned that it wasn't a master plan that you had from, you know, childhood, because I think there's so much pressure put on young people these days to figure out what you want to be when you grow up, and we can't even begin to predict what the world is going to look like years from now, what options are going to be available to us, what we're going to enjoy doing. And so what I love about what you're sharing is that the you know, you were able to identify in the moment what a logical or what a desired next step would look like that built upon the foundation that you had been building all along. And I think that that is a much, I want to say better because it's not people who are doing it who have the privilege of being able to look into the future, right? Great for them, but I think that for those of us who get anxious about, oh, do I don't have a career plan, right? I don't know what I'm going to do five years from now, to really be able to take some of that pressure off and say, Hey, you don't have to know, right? Right. You just have to keep your eyes open as you're going through it.

Morag Barrett

Well, I think the reality you're right. I think we're put on a pressure of being able to map out and one of the questions that used to frustrate me early in my career, and still does, is, where do you see yourself in five years time? And as you know, job titles come and goes, so it's more about what's the skill set I want to be using? What is the impact and legacy I want to be creating? What lights me up and then being curious enough and seizing the opportunities, even with some risk, because what's the worst that happens? You step off the path you thought you were on to try something adjacent to or in a slightly different direction. You can always step back onto the first path, and I'll give you an example, when we chose to move to America 20 years ago, it was only a couple of years after my mum had passed away, and we had moved from the Midlands in the UK to be closer to friends and family because James and Matthew at that point were just less than under five, and so we made that move in 2000 and then I discovered I was pregnant with Christopher, and at the same time, I was joining the American telecom company, and within two years of that, I was being invited to leave and move To America away from family and friends and my husband, I talked about it, and it was one of those on when in our dotage, if we didn't take this adventure and this risk, we knew we would regret it, and what was the worst that would happen? We'd sell up everything, move to America, maybe two years later, have to move home and take a couple of steps back, get a smaller house, restart the careers, but we felt that that was worth it. And I know in my own mind, when I've allowed my imposter syndrome, my self-doubt, to over-analyze, looking for the right time, the right moment when I'm ready, when the world is ready, you'll never find it. So the only thing I can do is here today and waiting for after the summer, when this project finishes, when that happens, that is, as a friend and colleague of mine, Dr Marshall Goldsmith, would say, is the America or the Western disease? So if you're curious about it, what can you do today, even if you don't want to jump into the deep end, what can you do to put your toe in the water? Just test it out, and then go from there.

Kim Meninger

And that really aligns with my philosophy around you have to, you have to do the scary thing first, that you're not going to feel confident until you do right, because so much of our behavior, whether we recognize it or not, is driven by fear. We're trying to protect ourselves, and that's a very natural human instinct. And the idea of moving with three babies to another country with leaving family behind, I'm sure it was terrifying at some level, but then I love your thinking about it from future you right, like, what am I going to regret more? And that allows you to make a values-based decision instead of a fear-based decision.

Morag Barrett

Yes. I mean, I was lucky in that my husband was we chose he was the stay-at-home dad. So yes, in other in some ways, it was easier, because I knew he was going to be home to look after the boys. And let's face it, I'm moving to America. They speak a similar language here, though I've learned to my cost is not exactly the same. It wasn't like I was moving somewhere where everything was going to feel different, though I still remember the first trip to the grocery store where all the brands are different, and because in Colorado, it's a warmer climate, and so the food that I would cook in England didn't kind of fit right. And yet I didn't know what I'm doing with all of these brands, so there was still some adjustment. But I also had that support network in Nick and I had the immediate friends that I already had in the workplace. With hindsight, what we hadn't accounted for was, how was Nick going to connect with people in the community, and how do we help set him up for success, especially as a stay-at-home dad, because you go back again, this is going back 25-27 years when he was at school pickup, he was the anomaly, and so it was less common to see it, and so harder to break into making connections with peers when we made that move. But we did get there, and it was trial and error, and I haven't looked back, because we're still here 20 years later.

Kim Meninger

So something worked, right?

Morag Barrett

Yeah, something worked.

Kim Meninger

But I think that ties back to, I really want to go back to what you said before, too, but the relationship piece, the relationship with yourself, relationship with others, and just as you're talking about setting your husband up for success relationships, whether we're talking about work or personal are so critical to our experience as humans. And so I know you've done a lot of work on this, your book on this, tell me more about your, your perspective on relationships.

Morag Barrett

So it is everything. They are everything. And I know when I started my banking career, being told, you know, it's not personal, it's just business. And I call BS on that because all business is personal. You think about every opportunity that comes your way. It's not just because you're the smartest or even the right candidate, especially because you're the right candidate. It doesn't necessarily come your way. It is all about who knows of you and those conversations that are happening in the room as opportunities arise where they're saying, Oh, I hope Kim applies. And then somebody comes to you and say, Kim, have you applied for this role? And if you haven't, you should. And so my philosophy is that success in business is about the quality of our relationships, but success in life is about our ability to build that culture of connection, and since we spend most of our time at work, it makes sense for us to lean in to those relationships and identify our critical stakeholders, and those may change over time, but if I looked at your calendar, if you had say five names that you are dependent on for your success, my hope is that they better appear on your calendar by way of some sort of one on one, whether you're sending them a text message, whether you're having lunch or whether you're having a zoom call that just says, How are you doing? Kim, what's working, what's not? How can I help better? Help you to be successful, or for us to be successful together. If you're not being that thoughtful and intentional in nurturing those critical relationships, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

Kim Meninger

That is such an important point, and I want to get your thoughts on this because some of us are more natural relationship builders than others. And again, there may be some fear there, there may be some anxiety, or there may just be some, some people just are more introverted, aren't as motivated to be out there connecting. But I wonder, because a lot of what I hear when I have these conversations is I don't have time. I'd love to have more relationships. I'd love to do what you're saying, but I don't have time, and I'm curious what you say in response to the time challenge.

Morag Barrett

So the key about this is it's not about and doing more, it's using the time you're already doing more strategically. And I became even more aware of this when we all switched to virtual meetings during the pandemic, because you think about it, when we were in the office, you would walk from one meeting room to another, and along the way, you may stop and, heaven forbid, have a restroom break or go and make yourself a cup of coffee. And while you're there, you might bump into somebody, or somebody would see you and say, Oh, do you have a minute? And you'd have that quick chat. And then you would arrive at your meeting maybe five minutes late, but it was fine. And then you'd all sit down and how's your day going, and then you'd get down to the business, and then you'd move on. And what I noticed with Zoom is the bad habits were, as soon as you're two seconds late, you, you watch it this week, people go, so sorry I'm late, and it's straight down to, what are you doing? So making the space at the beginning the end. I don't care in the middle, just to check in on how are you doing, starts to build those connections. And I have also learned, because I was a huge skeptic before the pandemic, I believed if you wanted to be a better human, you had to do it in a room with humans. Well, the pandemic put paid to that, but some of my newest, deepest friendships were made through Zoom and teams because I and they made the intentional choice that this was how we were going to connect. We chose to share our life journeys, the ups and downs. We chose to create the space to breathe, to be seen and to be heard. So if you haven't got time, then you need to reprioritize your time, because ultimately, if you don't make the time, it's going to bite you in the ass, because that opportunity that you want isn't going to come your way because they're thinking about somebody else instead of you, and your talents are being hidden. And everybody listening to this has talents that need to shine.

Kim Meninger

I love it, and I say something very similar. I would say, if you're not you're going to spend the time either way, you're either going to spend the time proactively and nurturing these relationships, are you going to spend the time cleaning up the mess on the back end? Because, you know, yes, the right level of trust and communication and connection.

Morag Barrett

So here's the thing. So I've written two books on this topic, so I'm just going to do a quick plug for both of them and tell you about some of the insights that the research have told shown us. So my first book for which the second edition is out, so please get your hands on it. It's called cultivate the Power of Winning Relationships. And in it, I introduce the concept of the relationship ecosystem. And it's all about being thoughtful and deliberate about who am I dependent on for my success, and what are the top three to five relationships that I absolutely need to give additional care and attention to, and I present in the relationship ecosystem for relationship dynamics, the unconditional we which is the ally, the best friend at work, the go-to person who has your back, not just on the good days when it's easy, but also on the tough days. And yet, it's not skipping through the daisies. This isn't just a friend who goes, Oh, Kim, you're amazing. They do that too, but they'll also come and say, Kim, you've got spinach in your teeth. Or, Kim, that presentation that you did last week. Love, love, love, that this bit fell flat. Here's how we're going to help you get better at it. So they're your friends that tell you what you need to hear, not just what you want to hear. You. Then have supporters. They are your fan club. They are the or, Hey, go Kim. But when you get the tricky moments, they're the ones who are quiet, because they're not going to take personal risk for you until they know what other how others are going to react. Rivals are a bit Jekyll and Hyde. When it suits my agenda, I'm all go, Kim, and when it doesn't, I'm against you. And of course, that uncertainty in the short term can help you raise your game, because we tend to prepare and over, prepare and anticipate. Well, if Kim says this, I'm going to do that, or before Kim can say this, I'm going to get my salvo in. But what that means is we're offensive, defensive playing, and not paying attention to the decisions, the work that needs to get done. And then the ultimate Dark Side relationship is the adversary, where it's just butting heads. It's toxic. And here's what I know is, nobody gets up in the morning except for maybe, point 1% of people. But nobody gets up in the morning thinking, Oh, can I be seen as an adversary today? Can I make Kim's day a misery? But sometimes it can be conflicting goals. It can be just different work styles. It can just be we never sat down and talked about how we are going to work together. So you're trying to do your best, I'm trying to do my best, and yet we're butting heads. So cultivate the Power of Winning Relationships. Provides you with that relationship ecosystem helps you diagnose the health of your relationships and start having those first conversations that say, how do we reduce the friction and get better together? The sequel, The sister book to it is you, me, we why we all need a friend at work and how to show up as one. And that takes that concept of ally, the best friend at work, that Gallup asks about in its engagement research, and turns the question from being a passive, reactive, do I have a best friend at work? No, because Kim got the promotion I wanted to. Am I a best friend at work, not just to everybody else, but am I also an ally and a best friend to me and my own needs. So it's not just about do you give, but do you set boundaries that allow you to define what does success mean for you and articulate them? And so everybody listening to this, please, please, please, cultivate and you me. We powerful reads, but a final invite, we have created what we call an Ally Mindset Profile. It's available for free at Sky, team, S-K-Y-E Team dot, cloud, forward, slash, you, me, we and what that does is it shows you the five practices of being and being considered an ally and a friend at work. And if I loop all of this back to my experience, my personal my Morag, insidious imposter voice, there's a whole chapter on that in cultivate. And if I think about what causes our relationships to fray, invariably, it's because we're not taking care and attention in one of those five practices that you will identify in the Ally Mindset Profile, I'm either in my case, for example, the foundational practice is abundance and generosity. My default operating system is yes, of course I can help, but if I give and help everybody else, but I'm not replenishing my own batteries. I'm not ensuring that what brings me joy I'm doing or I'm not asking for help to achieve the goals that I aspire to. Then it becomes lopsided, and my stress and anxiety will go up. As will my imposter syndrome of look, I'm helping them. I'm nice. Why won't they help me? Because I never asked. That's right. So they go hand in hand, and so our relationships with others, when they aren't strong, we believe the trash talk in our head. We don't ask for what we need. We don't take bold actions, and when we aren't investing in the relationship with ourselves, again, it's a double whammy. We don't have the courage to take that informed risk, to seize the opportunity. We just worry about, well, if I move to America, I'm going to lose X, Y and Z, as opposed to, oh, what are the possibilities? So that was a long answer.

Kim Meninger

No that was great. Thank you. I love the way you balance the need for the relationship we have with others with the relationship that we have with ourselves. Because I do think that once things get out of alignment, we do start to feel resentful. That can often lead to passive-aggressive behaviors which undermine trust. I'm the queen of that.

Morag Barrett

I mean, you're absolutely right. And here's what the research we've had more than 1000 leaders from the around the world take the Ally Mindset, profile 20% of them. So this mirrors the Gallup research. Say that they have no friends at work, no one they can turn to on those sticky days. Think about how lonely and vulnerable that must be. That's heartbreaking. 67% say that their success has been undermined by the words or actions of a colleague, and what we don't know is obviously intentional, unintentional, but again, that means that we're either undermining or being undermined by others every day. But if we aren't closing the feedback loop, how do we change it? And what's interesting to me is that that loneliness, that 20% with no friends, there is a bit of a gender divide in those results that show as we move up and through our career as women, we report having fewer friends and allies and given if we are whatever measure, the only in the room if we're also feeling whether or not it's a male colleague in the room who has our back or a female colleague not in the room who we can Go and vent to afterwards or ask for guidance, it causes us to be smaller and not bring our gifts to the fore. So I'm on a mission to change this one conversation, one relationship at a time. How can we create those cultures of connection that allow us to thrive and not just survive and bring our best selves to the table to every conversation that make us better together?

Kim Meninger

Well, and there's a self-perpetuating element to what you're talking about, too. So if I'm on the rise and I'm feeling disconnected from people around me, I may start to believe my inner critic more. So right? That might start, I might start believing myself when I tell myself that I'm not good enough, or that I'm a fraud, and that might make me less likely to be vulnerable because I don't want to reveal that about myself to others. I don't have that same network of trust to be able to open up to other people, and so it just keeps going and building its own momentum. Do you have suggestions for how to break down some of that vulnerability? Because it really does take, sometimes an act of bravery, if you haven't been doing this type of work, to try to, you know, crack open a new relationship, or try out some of the new practices that we're talking about here.

Morag Barrett

Yeah, so I'll give you a couple of examples. So I'm coaching several leaders at the moment, but literally a conversation this morning with in this case, a male leader in an engineering firm, and his frustration was that the senior leaders, when they come to visit the site, aren't inviting the leadership team of which he is part, you know, to go for dinner, to have the time together, to connect. And I pointed out, well, as one of the senior leaders in that office location, you know, when the executives are coming, what if you were to schedule that and invite them to come to it. You are the host. Now you're getting at it. And it was like, oh, wrote it down. Hadn't thought of it. I'm coaching a female leader who's just joined a new organization. Her office is in city A and all of her colleagues are dotted around the state, and when I suggested, well, how are people going to get to know you? Unless she gets in the car and goes to meet with them, nothing's going to change or schedules it on Zoom. And I got the Yes, but we don't have a cafeteria Yes, but it's going to take time well, go and work from another office for the day, and. Let people know, don't just go and lock yourself in another office and do zooms from their office. That doesn't help. But it's things like you go onto the zoom you have the celebrity squares. Maybe there's a face there that you've been seeing for the last two months, the last two years, the last 20 years. It doesn't matter. Send them a message that says, Hey, I saw you on that call, and you know what? I just don't understand. I'd love to better understand what your role is and how our success is dependent on each other. Do you have 10 minutes? Everybody's got 10 minutes. Schedule the call. Start reaching out if somebody new joins, whether or not they're in your organization. Just send them a welcome message and let them know that they can reach out to you, check in with them in three months’ time to say, make a little note on your calendar. That's what I do, and it's not cheating. To make yourself cheat notes and reminders. So three tips there. One is, be the host. Invite people if you're not being invited. Second is, don't just wait. If you see people on the celebrity squares of a Teams meeting or whatever, reach out and introduce yourself. And third, make yourself little notes of life moments. They're about to have a child, they're going on vacation. There's a wedding happening, and then just afterwards, you can send Hey, how did the wedding go? And I promise you, it starts to make deposits into that relationship bank account.

Kim Meninger

I love what you're saying because it's so human, right? And I always think we over-complicate it. Sometimes I joke we sometimes think we have to have, like, a big, fancy business reason to meet with people, as opposed to just showing human interest in others, and so my, my go-to strategy is to lead with curiosity, respect and gratitude, right?

Morag Barrett

Love it. I've got a night. Can I pick on that gratitude idea? All right, so everybody who's listening to this, I want you to think about your most favorite colleague or boss that you've worked with that you would jump at the chance to work with again. All right, so Kim, who would be the person that immediately comes to mind that you would love to work with again if you had the chance?

Kim Meninger

Yeah, there's, there's a person in my former life, so I used to work in high tech.

Morag Barrett

Oh, tell me. Go on and name them and tell us what makes them special. Why did they come to mind?

Kim Meninger

I think the person was somebody who was incredibly empathetic and compassionate at a time when it was really hard to be that way in a pretty aggressive environment, and so she was somebody who made me feel seen, made me feel safe when I was not feeling particularly confident at that stage of my career.

Morag Barrett

So I love that. And, I've asked this question of 1000s of leaders around the world, and every time I get the same answer, it's not how smart they were. It wasn't their technical knowledge. You think about what Kim just shared, what you're thinking about your favorite person, it was how they made you feel. So here's the thing I want you to do on gratitude, and here's what I want everybody listening to do. I dare you. I double-dog dare you. You've got to get your phone out right now as soon as we hang up here, Kim, right now, whatever. Send a LinkedIn message, a text message, an email, a message to the universe, to that person that says I was listening to Kim's podcast. We were asked to think about the favorite colleague I thought of you. And here's why. Don't just say and I thought of you tell them why, and I promise you, you're going to get a reply. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about the replies that other leaders have sent. But even if you get the Oh, thanks, you've made my day, it's another deposit, and it took you no time at all, they popped into your mind. You appreciated them. Show the gratitude. Send the message. Because again, as we move through our careers, we don't get those accolades, those reminders of actually, you are a good human being, and we disproportionately focus on the mistakes we made or the shoulders and could haves. So send the message. I was listening to this podcast, told to think of my favorite colleague, I thought of you. And here's why, hope you're having a good week done.

Kim Meninger

Boom, I love it. That is great strategy. And then who doesn't feel good after sending a message like that? And then, of course, the response is going to make you feel even better.

Morag Barrett

Yes. And so when you go back earlier to say, I haven't got time, think about it as a leader. If you are forever scattering the sparkles. I mean, New Orleans, I just did Mardi Gras. There's a lot of glitter and but if you can think about doing that virtually every day, making the baristas day, making, you know, the people who often are invisible, feel seen, and then those people that are important to your success, that you care about their success as much as you do your own, then you are going to be that go-to leader that everybody else wants to jump at the chance to work with again.

Kim Meninger

Yes, you're absolutely right. And I think of too about the fact that when. Struggle with imposter syndrome or self-doubt. More broadly, we're in our own heads. We're not paying attention to other people. We're missing a lot of these moments, these connection points that you're talking about when we're thinking about, how can I make someone else's day right then that's a service orientation that takes us out of our own head and allows us to be more present in the moment. And when we show up that way, we're naturally more confident when we're doing a thing that's good for others and, and for ourselves. So I just I feel like that's another one of those self-fulfilling types of cycles that that we should consider getting ourselves into.

Morag Barrett

I know when I'm working with my own coach, Cynthia Burnham, there are two tactics that she will use with me to help me snap out of it, aside from the smelling salts, and you're getting hysterical, but when I'm feeling beat down, and Am I really a successful business woman? And of course, 18 years of business would imply somewhat successful. But there are still moments where I go, Oh, they're going to say, No, I can't do this. And she will say, you know, she'll shake me out of it. And the two tactics, I've forgotten one of them, but it will come back to me. One is the phrase of until today and from today. Second one is the 1% rule. There you go. So let me just focus on the first one. Often we will beat ourselves up about the things that we can't yet do, or the things that we've been doing, like crossing your arms one way, and now I've got to learn to do it the other way that the company now requires me to do different so that's where the phrase until today, I use Zoom in order to do my meetings. From today, I'm going to be using teams and including five minutes for small talk and connection. So it acknowledges the past, but it articulates, what am I going to do from today until today, I was the expert in x now I'm the beginner, and starting to learn why. And then the other piece that Cynthia will do when she's working with me, when I'm awfulizing, when I'm stuck around, they all hate me and I'm terrible, and I just need to put the lights out and close the company. She'll, she'll, I tell me I'm being hysterical, but it's the 1% of truth, instead of thinking it's this big, enormous problem, either from the feedback I've been given, or the feedback I'm giving myself, she'll narrow it down to, well, what's the 1% truth? What's the reality here? And therefore, what's your choice? Because you can live with the 1% and continue on as you are in spite of it, or you can choose to modify. But it isn't a huge personality transplant that's required. It's a minor course correction. So now, am I ready and willing and able to do it? If yes, from today, here's how I'm going to show up. Or from today, I'm going to let that little voice go and tell it to shush.

Kim Meninger

Yes, and that's how I think we shift too, from this feeling of having failed to having learned.

Morag Barrett

Yes, and you know, it doesn't matter what others may describe it, you need to frame it in a way of, what did I learn, and how do I reduce the risk of that mistake or that challenge reoccurring, and how do I move forward with bigger strides increase momentum now, based on what I've learned.

Kim Meninger

Absolutely. Oh, my goodness, Morag, I could talk to you all day.

Morag Barrett

It's been fun.

Kim Meninger

Yes, this has been so great. And I love all of your tips. I think you've given us so many actionable things to think about. Any final thoughts here before I ask you where people can find you?

Morag Barrett

So as I said earlier, success in business is about relationships. Success in life is about connection. Taking the time to invest in the relationships that you have with others and the relationship you have with yourself is a game changer. And if you don't, if you're unsure how, then check out my two books, Cultivate, and You Me. We but connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm the one that replies to all of the messages I receive, and you'll receive my newsletter that way, and also follow us on Sky Team or send me an email. And, I'd love to hear more about what the challenges are that you may be experiencing in your workplace, and happy to give you some more personal tips and techniques to help you cultivate your winning relationships.

Kim Meninger

That is fantastic, and I will make sure that those links are in the show notes as well. And thank you so much for being here. And more importantly, thank you for what you're doing. I think you're, you're doing really important work.

Morag Barrett

Thank you.