In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about the pressures facing introverts. Many introverts believe that they need to be more extroverted in order to achieve success in the workplace. As a result, they exhaust themselves by trying to be someone they’re not. My guest this week, Kimberly Charvet, shares how she went from growing up with extrovert envy to recognizing that her introversion is actually a superpower. Here she shares insights and strategies to help other introverts do the same.
About My Guest
Meet Kimberly Charvet! Wife, mom to a blended family of 5, avid reader, organization nerd and obsessed with all things The Grinch! With 25+ years in Corporate America leadership experience and 20 years in Direct Sales as a life-long introvert she's found her passion for helping other introverted women in business to succeed. As the founder of Quiet Spark Coaching - Business & Life Coaching for introverted women, Kimberly helps women to increase their profits by helping them to achieve their top three goals over one year. She offers one-on-one coaching, workshops on planning for your business, and masterclasses on networking and discovering your purpose.
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Connect with Kimberly:
Website: https://www.kimberlycharvet.com
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Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:
Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.
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Websites: https://kimmeninger.com
Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Kimberly. It is so great to have you here today, and I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Kimberly Charvet
Thank you so much, Kim. Love your name. Let's start with you. Hi everybody. I'm Kimberly Charvet. I am located in a Northwest suburb of Illinois. I am a wife and a mom to a blended family of five. We have our oldest is 33 and married, and I have two grandkids already, so that's super fun. And our youngest is eight and starting third grade in a couple of weeks. So we really kind of span the gamut as a family, as a mom of a big family like it's, it's a lot of demands, and a lot of, you know, a lot of time spent in a million different places. But, you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. I think that's one of the great things about being a woman, is that we're able to like multitask and do so many different things at one time. So I am a self-proclaimed introvert to the core. And so I have been an introvert my whole life, you know the and I think growing up, I always had extrovert envy, if you will. So wanted to be more outgoing and wanted to be the person that really enjoyed being around a lot of people, and wanted to be the life of the party, and all of those things. And I think in my younger years, I always thought that that's what I needed to be in order for me to be accepted and successful. And so as I grew through school and then starting a job. I've been with the same company now for 28 years, started as an hourly employee, and have moved different roles in different positions, just because I wanted to challenge myself and see what I could do over the years, I now Lead a global team, and so I've been in leadership roles for 25 plus years. You know, being a woman in corporate America in technology and a leader can be a little scary. Sometimes. I recall going to retreats where there were seven other men and me, because we were the leadership team. So, you know, I mean, at least you were guaranteed your own room. Yeah. And a couple of years ago, I decided that I wanted to start coaching, so I went and got my life coaching certification, and I'm now coaching introverted women in business and, and life coaching helping them to believe in the I call it the hidden superpowers of an introvert, and really believe in themselves and try to find ways to help them be successful. My favorite thing to do with my, my women in business, is to help them get unstuck. So that's a little bit about me.
Kim Meninger
That’s so great! I mean, I love your story, and I can't wait to dive into it, and I love the term extrovert envy, and I, I often think about the ways in which the there's a bias toward extroversion in the workplace and often in the world. Because there is, there does seem to be, I don't know if it's a priority or whatever placed on people who are loudest and fastest, but that doesn't necessarily mean that, that those are the best ideas, or curious about your perspective on your own relationship to introversion, and how you've gotten to a place where you went from, I really want to be more of an extrovert to actually being an introvert is a superpower.
Kimberly Charvet
Yeah, it has definitely been a journey. You know, when I was I would say, when I was younger and first starting out, like, I would do everything that I could to fit in with everybody else. And what I found was that it was so exhausting, right? When you're trying to be someone that you're not, it just kind of wears you out. And you, you try to, you know, exhibit all the qualities that you see the successful people have, right, until you really find out that that's not working for you, right? And then you, you kind of like figure out, this is not this is not it like this is not going to work for me. I, I have no good ideas because I'm sitting here just trying to keep up with the conversation, and an introvert is really an observer and a thinker, and so they need that time to sit back and watch and to process, and that's when the great ideas come from. That's where the things that other people don't see will come because the introvert has taken the time to evaluate the whole situation, and they see, maybe the obstacles that other people didn't see. And I think especially in my corporate career, you know, I, I felt at the beginning, I really felt like I have to contribute to the conversation every single time I have to be the one throwing ideas out there right away. And it just didn't feel good, you know, physically like didn't resonate with me and, and it didn't make me feel like I was doing my best in contributing. And so I it was during a, I was during like, a one-on-one conversation with a manager, where I had made some observations about something that had happened in a meeting, and they said, you know, you don't have to keep up with everybody. It's about what you're able to contribute that's going to help us to grow, that makes the most difference. And that's when I started to realize, oh, okay, so I don't need to be like everybody else. I just need to be me and offer what I need to offer. And so I find that introverts, especially in like big settings, things where, things where, where maybe conversations are heated or topics are heavy your topics are hard. They're able to provide a perspective, an idea, a strategy, that other people haven't thought of before, and it's so accepted. You know, I like to say that when an introvert is in a meeting, if they're talking, everybody stops and listens because they know something great is going to come out of their mouth.
Kim Meninger
That's true because you kind of tune out the people who talk most often. It's like, oh, yeah, this person thinks I know what they're going to say. But when someone who doesn't talk often speaks, it's like, Ooh, I want to hear what they have to say, right?
Kimberly Charvet
Exactly, exactly. And that's the beauty of you know, being an introvert is that you, you really like, can observe and, and watch and think and evaluate all of those things and, and then you come up with your own creative solution that everyone is like, Oh, that's so good, you know,
Kim Meninger
Yeah, well, and I wonder too what your thoughts are on, not competing on somebody else's turf, so to speak. So I think to your point, if you're an introvert and you're trying to contribute in a forum that favors extroverts, it creates that sense of self-doubt or inauthenticity or rushes thinking in a way that doesn't allow for your best ideas. But there are also, unfortunately, lots of meetings, and a lot of these conversations happen in group settings, so having sort of take the reins, so to speak and, and really carve out spaces for yourself to be able to do your best thinking in your best work, so it doesn't become side by side comparison between extroverts and introverts.
Kimberly Charvet
Yeah, I tend to find that introverts in general, but especially speaking of myself, that I'm a very detail-oriented person, so I will take copious notes during meetings, and by taking those notes and really concentrating on what people are saying and what they're offering. It allows me an opportunity to kind of peek inside of what's happening in the situation, and gives me that insight that if you're just talking, talking, talking, and you're not listening, introverts are great listeners. If you're not listening, you're not going to pick up on the nuances. You're not going to pick up on but we're missing this piece, or we're missing that piece. And so for me, I found that being of I kind of call it being of service, and taking all of those notes and being able to share them with everybody that's there, you're adding value. You right there, because everyone else, like didn't keep up the way that you're going to keep up, because you're so detail-oriented, right? And then you're also giving your brain the opportunity to process while you are reviewing those things. And so typically, it's not going to be right at the beginning of the meeting where I'm shooting off ideas, it's going to be right towards the end. Okay, we have five minutes left. Who else has a thought? And that's when my hand raises and, and I'm able to say, Okay, this is what I've learned from being in this meeting. Or these are the things I've observed. What if? What about this? Have we thought about this? Have we tried this? And for me, that's been that's been super helpful, and that's where I've really been able to make a huge contribution to whatever the group is working on.
Kim Meninger
I really like that approach because I am an extrovert by nature. I'm somebody it's really hard for me to bite my tongue when I have something I want to say, you know, like, I have to be very mindful of creating space for other voices. And so I often think about, like, get your ideas in before somebody else does right? But what you're thinking is a really valuable compliment to that because maybe my way of doing it is a good approach for other extroverts who struggle, because I often say, like, you know, speak up before all the good ideas are taken. What you're saying, I think, is really important, and it's eye-opening for me because your approach to it of sort of taking it all in and then sharing at the end, gives you an opportunity to add value in an entirely different way because you've now listened a lot of voices, where, as you know, those of us who are extroverts are just kind of waiting for our turn, right?
Kimberly Charvet
Right and I think, I think introverts have a great way to validate what their extrovert counterparts are saying too, right? So we, we whatever, typically, whatever we will add-on to the conversation or the idea or the topic it, it comes from something our extrovert counterparts have already said. So we're giving you that validation that you need as an extrovert as well, right? Saying, Oh, you know, I really love this idea that Kim said, and what if we did this? So it's just an add-on to make it more comprehensive, to make it more holistic.
Kim Meninger
I love that, and it sounds like you had a leader that recognized that your approach brought unique value. I wonder, have you had leaders tell you the opposite? Have you had people tell you you're too quiet or you need…
Kimberly Charvet
Yes. So I've had I've had that quite a bit. I actually I had the opportunity about midway through my career to do, they called it like a talent program. So I traveled to Virginia, and I did a nine-month role stint in that, in that office, and I was responsible for a team, and up being a team of like 100 people, okay? And I had six leaders reporting to me, and I remember it was probably two or three months into the assignment. One of the leaders we were having, like a one-on-one conversation, checking in, how are things going? And he said to me, you know, when you first came here, I thought you were so stuck up and snobby because you didn't talk to anybody. He's like, and now I know that you are so warm and so kind and so caring, and it's just because you're, you know, you're introverted, and you tend to like, want to observe things instead of engaging right away, and I'm like, and that was so eye-opening for me. [Wow.] To hear that.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, wow. I love that. He actually shared that with you.
Kimberly Charvet
Mm-hmm, yeah. And, you know, I've had the opposite, where I've had leaders, you know, in a negative way. Tell me you're too quiet, you don't contribute enough in meetings, you don't do this, you don't do that, you know? And, and that's because I wasn't like them, basically, is what it boiled down to, you know? I don't, I'm not, I don't operate the same way that you do. And that, that's going to happen in the workplace, right? And you just have to learn to, like, navigate through those and figure out, you know, well, what's what is best for me, what is the right thing for me to do here? Because, again, if you're trying to change who you are, you're going to deal with that whole imposter syndrome, right? And, and try to be like somebody that you're not. And. Feel like I don't belong here. This is not right for me. I'm not a good fit. Well, you know, after 28 years navigating corporate America, obviously I'm doing something right.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And do you recommend, or have you yourself, kind of owned the introvert brand? Like, do you? Do you recommend saying to people, you know, I'm an introvert, so you might know this, then I'm quieter than other people. Or, like, I don't, I don't advocate for labels per se, because [Right, right] that's a fair characterization, but, but I do sometimes think that people like just like that story that you shared about the guy who thought you were stuck up in snobby because you're as opposed to recognizing, oh, actually, there's a totally different reason that is, you know, much it's much more favorable to you, right? Going on offense in that way and just sort of letting people know, hey, I tend to be more introverted in certain situations.
Kimberly Charvet
Yeah, when I'm first meeting people, I always tell them, you know, just so you know, I'm an introvert. It's not that I'm not interested in you, but my nature is to observe. If you need something, please come to me, because I'm most likely not going to come to you. So as a leader, I am not a hands-on like in-your-face, kind of person. I let you figure things out. And when you need help, you come to me, and I feel like I do the very same thing from a coaching perspective, like you lead the conversation. You tell me what it is that you need, and then we will figure out together how to overcome that. Being, being a coach for introverted women eases that eases that introduction right away because I tell everybody, well, I'm a coach for introverted women. They're like, are you an introvert? Yes, I am, and that most people are really surprised to hear that I'm an introvert because I can talk to people, and I can, you know, lead a conversation, and I can do all of these things, but, you know, don't, don't let that like fool you. As soon as the conversation is over, I'm going home to sit quiet for a little bit so I can regain my energy.
Kim Meninger
Do you find, as you have risen through the ranks and taken on additional levels of leadership, that you've had an opportunity to influence some of the structures, like, how do people, how do your extroverted colleagues engage with you as a leader? And do you find that you have an opportunity to kind of create more balanced spaces for people?
Kimberly Charvet
Yeah, for sure. I think one of the gifts that I have as a leader as an introvert is that I'm it's really important to me to build relationships with others, and not just surface-level relationships, but really deep relationships. And so whenever I'm in the corporate environment, I'm always looking at things from the employee's perspective. What's going to be best for them? I understand this is the company strategy but how do we get them to understand what that means to them and how they contribute to it, and how is that going to feel? I think especially in corporate America, it's like, well, this is what we're told so this is what we have to do. And we forget about culture a lot. And if you can give my personal opinion is that if you can give your team the autonomy to do the things that they think is the right thing, to do, the safety to take a risk and be able to make a mistake and not be punished for it, to really like have open dialog with you about this is not working for me. What else can we do? It really changes. It really changes the, the whole conversation. It changes what they're willing to do as a team to make sure that you guys are successful. It gives them that ability to really make a difference. And I think that's something that I'm kind of known for in, in my area right now, is like being that person who really is concerned about culture and impacts, you know, not just what we do, but how we do it.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I think everything that you're saying is so important, the whole concept of psychological safety, right? I do think that there are a lot of people who just don't feel safe to have those conversations, [right] or introvert and [right], you know? And when you create a level of psychological safety where people feel like they can make mistakes and can share honestly. Then it creates a space where people do feel more comfortable being their authentic selves.
Kimberly Charvet
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. I mean there is nothing wrong with being an extrovert. There’s nothing wrong with being an introvert. It’s just how you were created and how you process things. I like to say that every introvert has an extrovert best friend. We need each other, right? I need my extrovert best friend to get me out there and to do things, and challenge me. And, she needs me because she knows that she can just talk and talk and talk and talk and I’m going to listen.
Kim Meninger
That’s so true. Yeah. My husband is an introvert and I’m an extrovert and we balance each other really well. [Yes.] You’re absolutely right. It’s like a yin and yang.
Kimberly Charvet
Exactly. Right? Like, if the world was all introverts, no one would talk to each other.
Kim Meninger
If the world was all extroverts, no one would hear each other. Right? So I love that perspective. And, and I wonder to as you are coaching women, what are they saying to you? What are the biggest things that they’re coming to you for right now?
Kimberly Charvet
Oh, gosh, a lot of it is, um at. Introverts are quiet on the outside but on the inside it’s very loud. So we do a lot of work on mindset and I just last week, I released a new video on YouTube about looking at sales from an introvert’s perspective, right? And thinking about, like, how do I ask for a sale? Instead of thinking about it, like, oh my gosh I have to ask them, like, okay do you want to buy this? Right? Because an extrovert might be totally okay to say, okay, do you want to buy this? This is great! I love this. How about this? Do you want to add this too? And an introvert inside is going, oh my gosh, I can’t do that, I want to throw up right now, right? And so looking at things like how am I solving the problem for you? What are you telling me that you really need help with? Um, how is this going to make your life better? And being able to offer solutions to folks and really learn about them and build relationships with them. I think is something that comes up a lot. Um, looking at uh, well this person all they do is, is, you know, on social media all they do is post all their products all the time and they are doing really well. But you have no idea what else they are doing behind the scenes, right? You don’t know how many people they are talking to. You don’t know how many, um, networking events they are going to. You don’t know, like you don’t know all of those things so you cannot make those kinds of assumptions about people either. And whatever you do, you have to feel good about it. So if it doesn’t feel good to you, don’t do it. You know and those are some of the conversations that we have a lot is really understanding, like, how can I do this in a way that feels good to me and how can I do it so it is aligned to really what I’m supposed to be doing on this planet, right? Everybody has a purpose. Everybody has a why and you really have to dig deep to understand what that is. Because, you know, saying you want to make more money is not going drive you at the end of the day but saying you want to leave a legacy for your children is going to drive you at the end of the day. There’s a huge difference from one to the other. So, those are some of the things we really, we work on a lot.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I really appreciate that perspective too. I often talk about coming from a place of service rather than ego. And the idea that if we can ask ourselves in a given moment, Am I being true to myself, right? Like, is this really my genuine self? And is this about doing what I believe what is right thing to do for this moment whether that is the team, the, you know, the family, whatever the forum is, right? [Right] Or am I doing this either to protect my ego or stroke my ego, right? And I think there is a, you mentioned, you said the word exhausting, right? That’s not a sustainable approach to try to put on a persona that doesn’t come naturally to you and that in many ways is like an ego-driven exercise, right? Because you are trying to impress people you’re trying to be something to other people in order to be liked or, where as if instead you come back to like what does this moment need right now? What would that [Right.] I think more often than not, as you said, like this moment probably needs more introverts. Uh, is there a, and this is an oversimplification, I completely understand, but is there like a first step or a tip that you would give to women listening who are resonating with this and thinking, I really want to embrace my introversion, but I feel like I'm surrounded by all these extroverts that are putting all this pressure on me. Like, where do I start?
Kimberly Charvet
Yeah, my favorite exercise, and it's challenge, so start small, but my favorite exercise is, I call it an I Am One hundreds list, and you're creating a positive statement of 100 things that you are, usually as an introvert, you're going to struggle to get past like 20. But this is where I would encourage you to ask the people around you, what's a quality about me that you admire, what's something about me that you wish that you had, what's something about me that you really appreciate, and you will be surprised at the things that people say to you. It's always so affirming, and it's always so you know, it can be surprising. I think sometimes you're like, wow, I didn't realize that you saw me that way. You know, I'll never forget when my, my extrovert best friend. She's like, when, when she decides that she wants to do so, when Kimberly decides that she wants to do something, it's going to get done, and it's going to get done better and faster than anybody else because she is so dedicated and so driven. And I'm like, wow. That has stuck with me. It's it was probably 25 years ago that she said that to me, and it is still sticks with me today. And I that I hear that in my mind whenever I'm, I'm struggling with something like this is just not working. I don't understand. I should just give up. And I hear her voice in my head, say that to me, and I'm like, wow, so that's my favorite. That's my favorite way to get started is just start by affirming yourself and then ask the people around you that you trust, what do you think? What are some of my favorite qualities?
Kim Meninger
I love that you just reminded me of something I saw on Facebook recently that said, like, we should say to people the things that we would say at their funerals, at their birthday. [Right.] You know, it's like we wait until someone's gone to right to admire them and talk about all these great things, but yeah, creating these opportunities to get that kind of insight from the people around us. And also, I think it's a good invitation to everybody to share that, [mm-hmm] actively with the people around them too, because a lot of people will be nervous about asking, but for us to be able to go out there and say, Hey, what I really appreciate about you is, right, you know, right?
Kimberly Charvet
And if you're uncomfortable, you can just tell someone, hey, I'm working with this coach, and she told me to do this.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. It's my assignment,
Kimberly Charvet
Right? I will fully take credit for that. You can tell me, my coach said to do this, and it's okay with me.
Kim Meninger
I love it. I think that's such a great idea. Oh, this has been so fantastic, Kimberly. I absolutely love what you're sharing, and appreciate so much that you have been willing to be here today and sharing perspective. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you, to access your support?
Kimberly Charvet
I am everywhere. Easiest way is my website, which is Kimberlycharvet.com it's under construction at the moment, so I will tell you that, but you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, find me on Google under Quiet Spark Coaching. I also have a meet-up group for introverted women. We just crossed the 900-member mark, so that's really exciting. Yeah, and so I host speed networking for women in business twice a month and once a month, just for introverted women to be able to get to meet other introverted women because it can be hard the older you get to make friends, right? You're not on the playground anymore, and you don't tell her, her dress is so pretty, and you just want to be your friend, right? We don't do that as adults, and so it's just an opportunity to be able to meet other women. It's all over Zoom. It's all free. So it's a, it's just a chance for you to, you know, get to know somebody else. And then I recently started a YouTube channel, so I drop little videos 15 minutes or less every Wednesday on something that is going to help you as an introvert to find success in your life. So
Kim Meninger
That's great. So many resources, and I'll make sure there are links in the show notes as well, and thank you again, Kimberly, for being here, but also for your work. I think it's so important, and I just love what you're doing.
Kimberly Charvet
Thank you. Thank you.