Stop Believing Everything You Think
In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about the power of our thoughts and why they can feel so convincing in the moment. My guest this week is Kay Tear, a business psychologist, executive coach and author who helps people better understand how their minds work.
Kay challenges the way we think about impostor syndrome, resilience and our reactions to change. We explore how our state of mind shapes our experience and why two people can face the same situation and walk away with completely different interpretations.
We also discuss what happens when we become consumed by fearful thinking and how we can loosen its grip. Kay shares why noticing our thoughts, creating space for fresh thinking and taking one small action can help us move forward with greater clarity and confidence.
About My Guest
Most leadership training is boring — and it's aimed at the wrong problem entirely. It teaches skills to people who are already too overwhelmed to take them in, and calls that development. So Kay Tear built Business Reimagined to work with organisations that want to liberate their people from overwhelm, burnout and disengagement. They want to create an exceptional employee experience with unique yet proven approaches that redefine development and wellbeing.
A Business Psychologist for over 20 years and an executive coach, Kay helps leaders learn about the human operating system — not behaviour, not competencies, but the inner world actually running the show underneath. Her approach is ruthlessly simple by design, because overwhelmed leaders don't need more content, they need less noise.
Kay is the author of Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Overcome Anxious Attachment.
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Connect with Kay:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaytear/
Website: www.businessreimagined.co.uk
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Websites: https://kimmeninger.com
Transcript
Kim Meninger
Hi, Kay. Welcome. I'm so excited for our conversation, and I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Kay Tear
Thank you, Kim. No, it's great to be on your show, and hello to the listeners. Well, I would call myself a reformed business psychologist. It's how I'm describing myself at the moment, but I'm also an author. I'm an executive coach, and really, what's really changed for me in the last kind of about six years now is the way that I see the world of psychology, and hence why I call myself a reformed business psychologist, because I I spent 15 years working for five different management consultancies, so helping companies look at how do we get the best out of people, you know, how do we make sure that the systems recruitment and development, so leadership development and succession, how do we help people do those? But I just got to this point, and it was probably a few years in. You know, at first I was a good student, and I was listening to everything and the frameworks and learning how to do everything, and then there was a point I thought this can't be it. There was just there was just something that just felt so manufactured about it, and you kind of start feeling that way. And then eventually, I got to a point where I just I suddenly learned something in 2018 that made me completely feel differently about how it works. So rather than teaching people, and I'm not saying anything wrong with teaching, but I think we've gone too far into we we have a problem and we immediately want to teach people how to do it. And here's how someone else did it, and so here's how you need to learn to do it. And in that way, we're outsourcing. We're encouraging people to actually outsource their thinking. You don't think for yourself. Remember what this person did in that model. And in the world of work right now, people are just so overwhelmed and busy and back to back to they can't remember these things in the moment. So it took a while to get there, but I suddenly was introduced to an approach in 2018 that was just so simple, and it's really about understanding our minds, and that when we understand how things work, we don't need all the models, and that completely just changed my approach. And then I wanted to leave my company and set up my own business, which I did in 2021.
Kim Meninger
Ah, wow! I'm so fascinated already. I can tell I'm going to want to have a really long conversation with you. Keep my keep my comments tight here, but I think what you're saying makes so much sense for so many reasons. And I think that a lot of how I think about what we get wrong in the workplace too is that there's often we're often like highly rooted in these academic settings where it's like there's one right way to do things and we all learn and memorize the formula, and then if something deviates from that, we don't know what to do, and it creates a lot of self doubt and anxiety, and we've got you know people struggling with perfectionism, and we're in a world that's really dynamic and volatile, and there are problems that we haven't faced before that don't have existing formulas, and so I would love to hear you talk a little bit more if you're open to it about what needs to change in a more actionable level.
Kay Tear
Well, I think that's a great example that you gave because the other thing is that companies actually say that they want something different, and we've got to innovate. You know, we've got to stay competitive. But then, as soon as someone puts one foot out of the, the normal deviant circle, you know, then, then it's like, no, you shouldn't do that. You can't do that. We never told you to do that. And so there's this real interplay, isn't there, between people getting the message that well, we want innovation, we want to be different, and at the same time, the old mindsets that exist that kind of keep people trapped and that therefore feed this sense of perfectionism and wanting to get it right and wanting to be seen to be doing well. So, what what do I think people need to do differently? Well, for me, of course, there's no one answer. But for me, a big thing that I do now is really help people to understand how the mind works, and what I mean by that is how we experience the world. So, if I just take for an example, I was just talking to a client yesterday, and I'm going to be running a workshop with him with somebody else that I know for his team is 32 people, and they are navigating change as which everyone is at the moment. But who wants to address some of the issues on the engagement survey. So there's there's nothing kind of bad on it or anything, but some some common ones on there that he wants to address. Now that's around getting over silos or breaking down silos and actually the, the barriers to execution. And so if you think about. Those two things, you know, almost every company that I work with says that we work in silos. So why, you know, don't they? And why does that happen? That happens because, of course, as companies get bigger, the scope of what we do gets smaller, and that makes sense, doesn't it? In a big company, but it means the whole system is geared towards narrowing people's focus, so therefore, is it any wonder that we end up getting these silos? So there might be, you know, what I might have done back in the day would say, how do we look at this as a communication thing, and we make sure we have meetings, and we talk, and we make sure we understand each other's perspectives, but that is further down the chain of behavior. You know, the behavior is the very last thing. You know, what comes way, way before that. If you think about pulling on that thread, it's really about the thinking that we have before that. So somebody has to have the thought that this isn't fair, and that's usually what one of the thoughts that where we feel there's that barrier to execution. Every time I ask for permission to do something, it's turns down. So you can see why someone will get frustrated with that. But the issue isn't necessarily to just tackle. Well, how do you do it differently? You know, how do you get a better business case? It's all doing, doing, doing, and actually, what we do, it's like just think about that thought and the frustration that comes from that thought and everything that follows. So, you know, we have a frustrated thought that gives us a frustrated feeling. That feeling gives us a physiological reaction, and in that state, our thinking is always going to be distorted from then on. You know, we're never going to be at our creative best selves. So, if we keep asking people to do more in that state, we're not clearing the way for them to do anything differently. So, hopefully, that gives you a bit of an example about how I do things differently now.
Kim Meninger
Yes, I I love that. I think you're absolutely right to move back a few steps. I think we we skip steps when we're trying to address challenges in the workplace, and so much of what you're describing resonates with me because organizations are made up of humans, complex humans with emotions, right? As much as we like to pretend that they don't, and, and so much of of how we operate is not this very robotic kind of rational framework analysis. It's it's how do we feel in the moment, and who do we trust, and you know how how do we get along with the people around
Kay Tear
us? Yeah, exactly. And there's there can be lots of reasons why people feel differently, and, and I think I actually did a LinkedIn post today, which just talks about change management because, of course, it's coming up all the time in my work at the moment, and people say, "Well, we've got to help them overcome the resistance to change. Like there's the change, like everyone has going to have the exact same response to the change, and of course, they don't. You know, if you've got 200 people in that being affected, you're going to have 200 experiences, and some of them may have some alignment. But as you'll know, when you work one to one with someone, when you coach, and you can go to that deeper level, you find it really is something quite different. You know, underneath that, you know, it's not the, the first, second, or the third response they give, you suddenly get to that point, and you say, "Now, can that be true? And where does that come from? I think this is another big difference in my work now. That sometimes traditional kind of psychology approaches want to go back and look at where did a thought or a mindset come from, and in the work I do now, I say it's not important to know where it came from, but you just have to see it happening and know that it isn't fresh thinking in the moment, because we can get caught in this kind of analysis of if only I can trace it back, and but it doesn't matter because we always have the capacity for fresh thought, and we all do. Just you know, but we don't realize that. So if we if we never give ourselves the chance to see that, well, how is it that I can feel differently about the same thing on two different days? So you know, redundancy is a great example where you know I can talk to someone and be like, I'm really fearful. What is this going to mean for me? And then on another day, they might say, Actually, I'm quite looking forward to it now. I've started to think differently, and maybe there's these opportunities, and I connected back with some people I haven't spoke to for a long time. So you're like, well, that's interesting, isn't it? We're having a completely different experience about the same thing, so it's not the thing out there. It can't be, can it? It has to start with your thoughts, and that's the whole thing that I really want people to to understand differently.
Kim Meninger
So I wonder what your thoughts are on the need for more reflection time, and I often talk about pushing the pause button because we tend to rush through a lot of these thoughts and feelings, and we don't even realize they're happening, but they are, you know, having an effect obviously on our reinforcing our experience in many ways. And so, do you have thoughts on what we can do differently to recognize those thoughts as they're happening?
Kay Tear
Yeah, no, it's a great one. And again, people want to-they want something to do. What do I do about this? But for me, the doing is noticing. You have to start making the invisible visible, because what happens is these things are all so ingrained that we don't even notice them. You know, the reaction happens so fast that we we get the feeling before we even realize the thought, and therefore we think the feeling is coming from out there. It's coming from what I just heard. We don't realize that it has to come from the thinking about what we just heard, and it can only work that way. Because just think, if you heard a piece of news and you weren't bothered by it, then you know you you you have no reaction, don't you? You know, like I remember, I was at a conference. It was there last year, and there was three of us that knew each other, and, and I wasn't. I didn't really like to speak. I won't say who it was, but when when it finished the keynote, I lent to my friend and I said, "Well, that's 40 minutes of my life. I won't get back. And she she chuckled, but then of course, as it finished, the other lady turned around and went, "Wow, that was so profound. And I thought, you know, it just shows you. Like we think we're all there watching this keynote, having the exact same experience, or we think we're all in the meeting, kind of on the same page. We we never are. We live in this little virtual reality headset, and we think we're all in the same one, but we're not. We're in our one.
Kim Meninger
I love that you just called it a virgin meal. Instead of you know, I want to bring in imposter syndrome into this conversation because I really want to hear your perspective on this, and I think that this is a, an experience that has become pathologized in many ways. Right? You you mentioned when we first connected about even the use of the word syndrome, right, gives this a charge and gives this sort of a stigma that is unwarranted in many ways. It's mislabeled, misunderstood. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and how it ties to what we're talking about?
Kay Tear
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's funny because my book is called Overcome Imposter Syndrome, but imposter syndrome is only a small part of it. Really, I was just thinking this actually in the car, you know, as I was thinking about talking to you today, and I thought the, the title could have been Understand the Mind to Overcome Imposter Syndrome, but of course, as a series, it didn't work with my first book. So you know, but overcoming poster syndrome is the title. But when you go back and look at the original research, so that's from 1978. So that was from Clance and Imes, and they called it a phenomenon. So what they said is that when they looked, there was a lot of high-performing women, and that they all reported certain things like perfectionistic traits, and they said it felt like an imposter phenomenon. So that was that was their turn. Now, what happened from the research I can do is that it was the media who picked it up and turned it into syndrome, which you know just has that more you know weighty feel to it, doesn't it? That pathologised medical feel, and it was actually in Vogue magazine in 1981 that that came out a syndrome, and ever since then we've thought about it as syndrome. Again, we don't want to go on a big tangent about the importance of language, but we can see how phenomenon syndrome feel quite different, don't they? So people then feel like I relate to that, and but they'll probably relate to a slice of it or a piece of it because again, imposter syndrome is a label, you know, and it's a bit like the label's a basket, and then we put loads of you know things in that basket, and we call the basket imposter syndrome, but it's made of loads of things, and I think what happens is that people connect with, and it feels like it's not just me. And we have this strong tribal instinct, don't we? We don't want to feel like we're the only one. So I think it feels comforting to people to know it isn't just me who feels like that. But I think going back to the original. That in 1978, women in the workplace would have been a newer thing, and we're fortunate now. You know, like it's leveled out a lot, and there's a huge amount of different, you know, levels of the amount of women in work and women in senior roles. But in those days, there really wouldn't have been a lot of role models, and so it makes a lot of sense you can hear it what it was in those days, but yeah, hopefully that starts to to make sense about the way I see it. I see it as a kind of social conditioning, and, and I see it as a natural part of human nature because we have a thought to protect ourselves, and that thought is, am I doing this right, or however much we want to see it, and then to feel like it's all of us, we cling on to the fact that it's imposter syndrome, which feels much more like few, it's not just me.
Kim Meninger
Yes, yes, I think that's such a relatable way of describing it because that was certainly my experience. I studied psychology when I was in undergrad, and I remember being introduced to the term, and it all of a sudden felt like ah, I'm seen, right? Like I feel like you know that this is what I've been experiencing, and now just having a label for it makes me feel so much better. But that doesn't help with the experience itself, right? So as we think about the power of our thoughts and how they influence our behaviors, if we are prone to these types of thoughts of, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm a fraud, people are going to find out. Is there anything that we could be thinking about differently or doing differently to try to disrupt that.
Kay Tear
Yes. Well, I think again, I come back to recognizing it as a thought. And again, there can be certain people, maybe people who are interested in self-help, look at things like cognitive behavioral therapy and might say, "Oh, that feels similar, but in the way I mean it is just that thought is an energetic kind of process. And actually, if you look at it in the brain, it's like little pieces of energy moving around. You know, if you really take it back to the first thing. So I help people to see that we don't we don't choose what comes in our mind, and that's why it's not there all the time. Now, if it was a syndrome, you would have it all the time, and that's the you know if it was something like that. Just like we have blood all the time, we don't sometimes have blood, and sometimes we don't. We always have it, and in that way, we we can see through imposter syndrome because it comes and goes, and it comes and goes. I would say, with our what we what I call now our state of mind or our mood, and so as our mood shifts, the quality of our thinking shifts as well. So when we're in our kind of higher mood, we're we're more clear-headed, and I and I invite anyone to say, think about any time you've just been really kind of engrossed in the work you're doing, you know, and we might say fully in flow, you know, like but but just any time when you feel quite absorbed in what you're doing. So like this conversation is a good one, you know, where we can really be concentrating, and, and it feels nice, and we've not got lots of other things going on in the way. But when we're in a low state of mind, we're stressed, maybe maybe we're tired, and the quality of our thinking gets distorted. You know, coming back to what I said earlier, so that's the time when those moments might creep in, and you also focus on them. So it's not that they never come in necessarily when you're in a better mood, but we don't pay them attention in the same way, and when we pay something attention, our attention is like a spotlight on the stage. And if we fixate on something for too long, we get in the feeling of that. So as soon as we start with the fearful thinking for too long, and we're in that energy, we get the physical feeling of fear, and then we get the physiological response, and before you know it, that's a vicious circle with the distorted thinking and things. And how we get out of that is to notice what we're doing. And of course, the quicker we can notice that, the more practice you get at noticing your state of mind and the kind of quality of your thinking. Then we just have to learn to kind of move that light away. I think of it. Think of yourself like you're the stagehand, and you're just moving the, the light away to another part of the stage, and then your mood will shift because it. That's just how we're made as humans, you know. Like mood shifts. We don't control our mood, you know. And hope. I think most people, when I work with them, they can see that quite quickly.
Kim Meninger
I love that you talk about the variability of our thinking and our experience because I think that's such an important thing, and that you called out too. That imposter syndrome is is episodic, right? It's not something that we have consistently experienced throughout every moment of our lives, and so. Just tying it back to what you were saying too about even this external event we perceive differently on a different day based on you know new information or however our mood is such an important reminder of how much more agency we have than we think we do right and I think sometimes when we think about imposter syndrome as this condition that we struggle with. We feel like a victim of it or a hostage to it, as opposed to no. This is kind of a this is a human experience. We all struggle with fear, and I I kind of think of it as fear, right? It's fear of making a mistake or being judged, and that fear is ingrained in us for a reason because it's designed to keep us safe and alive, right? And so, if we can recognize what's actually happening in those moments, we we can keep it from spiraling in the way that you're talking about. Because unfortunately, I think what often happens too is I get in my own head, I start to worry, and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, right?
Kay Tear
Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree with you, and it comes back to that. It's completely natural to have fearful thoughts. In fact, it's probably more natural to have fearful thoughts than to have clear thinking. But we have both, and that's what I encourage people to start doing. Notice when you're clear-minded as well, and it can be anything. It can be you're in the supermarket and you just you know you're just going around things. You think, oh yeah, my head wasn't full of all that thinking right now. I mean, right now you know as we're filming, it's the middle of August, and I know that when I go back to coaching clients, if I haven't seen them for a while, they'll say, "Oh, I feel so relaxed. I feel, you know, like really invigorated. And and I'll just say to them, they think it's the holiday, but I say, "You just had a break from your thinking. I said, "That's the difference, and you can actually do that at any time, but you do have to get practiced at it because when we have a lot going on and we we kind of spinning those plates, and we've got the emails and the meetings, and can be the children or the caring, or and you know life does just get really really busy, and we can see why it's hard to disconnect. But when we can learn to do that, and I think people got to do that actively. I know I'm certainly a terror for always liking to have music or podcasts on, which I enjoy. But I do try and have those moments now where I don't have things on and my mind is clear, even if I'm just walking 10 minutes to the shops. So to give your brain that chance to recalibrate, and then it's funny what comes up to the surface. You know, like our brain is trying to give us information when it's rested and when it's relaxed. So I'm working on a tender at the moment, and I suddenly, you know, again, I was giving myself one of those moments earlier, and suddenly that memory just popped up, which is no, remember you did it with this client, you know? And I thought, oh, how did I not include that example, you know? And now maybe if I hadn't have had that time, I wouldn't. You know, who knows? Maybe I won't win the tender anyway. But it's I that is such a perfect example for that. But it just wasn't front of mind right then, and, and I bet people will have that same experience.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, you know what you're making me think about too is I think we spend, and this kind of goes back to the, the earliest points that you were making. Was we spend a lot of time trying to control external forces in our environment that are often outside of our control. You know, we've got the rise of AI, which is obvious. You know, for obvious reasons, making people uncomfortable, and you've got lots of reorgs and different things going on in workplaces that that activate our nervous systems because we don't like change, but at the end of the day, change will happen. It's the I think the more productive focus is on managing ourselves through whatever inevitably happens around us, and I see that as what you're describing, right? Because if we can practice, as you're saying, and get a little better handle on how we think in these moments, we will feel more empowered when they whatever version of it arrives.
Kay Tear
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and, and in fact, in the book, I talk about what I call resilience, which is that we have innate resilience. We'll always find a way through. You know, we're designed to do that to have fresh thinking, and we don't need to build resilience. And again, that's very different from my early psychology days, where you know companies they're trying to sell their models, they're trying to sell their psychometric tools, and I think a lot of the psychology industry is based on that, selling you the tool, selling you the program. But now I just see it that, of course, we're naturally resilient. Of course, we're completely fine now. Our thinking takes us out of that, and just in the way that it takes us out of our confidence, we're confident until we suddenly have that thought: Will this go well? Is this. What they want to hear, you know, that suddenly takes us out of our, you know, neutral, clear-headed state. It's not that we need to get more of something; we need to notice that our busy mind takes us out of it.
Kim Meninger
Yes, and I'm curious. And now I'm going to be, I'm, I'm in danger of doing exactly what we talked about not doing by trying to find the secret recipe or the formula for this for this. But I'm curious when you talk about shifting the camera and just and, and kind of diluting some of those thoughts. Are there things that you recommend people do like focus on, think about like beyond what is consuming them in that moment, that the unproductive thought.
Kay Tear
Well, I I think one thing you were just talking about is control and how we try and be controlled, and, and I always think of that as the illusion of control because we we only see this when it really really happens in a big way, don't we? And then we suddenly realize, well, I'm not in control, and kind of COVID was the, the big global one, wasn't it recently? But we get it with our health all the time, and then we real, you know, suddenly something happens to our health, and then we think, wow, you know, that really isn't. Of course, we can even if you're healthy, to be honest, you know, and then people say, wow, they had a health issue and they ran all the time and they were healthy, and so we always think that we've got this illusion of control, but we don't really. And and I think that is a big thing as well to that kind of surrender to knowing that you are here completely fine as you are. And that's not to say, you know, if you want to find purpose, and again, you as I was just listening to another podcast, there's a thing about purpose and people need purpose. But I have people and I coach, and I just say, don't worry about that. Like, worry about like right now, what's the next thing you need to do, and that hopefully takes people out of the rumination. And I always say that action will give you information, and it can be one tiny thing, you know. You have one conversation with someone, and then oh, I didn't know that, and now my perspective has completely changed. And so, any small actions you take will start to shift your mindset. And and as soon as you shift where your mind is at, your attention, everything else will shift, so we just need to trust that that is the way it works. We don't need to do things differently, but if we're suddenly caught up, I'm like, take anything-a bit like pulling like the Velcro off. You know, you've just got to detach a bit from that. Have a cup of tea in the suppose in the US, you've got more US listeners. Maybe have a coffee and not just be scrolling on your phone, but just you know, just look out the window. Just go for a quick walk. Anything that gives us physical movement in moving us will move us energetically, and that will loosen the grip that we're having with the thinking that stops the feeling. You know, and the other thing I would say is that people? Some of course we want it right now, don't we? We have this real culture of like, yes, but you know, where's the pill? How do I, you know, what's the magic formula? But when I say to people that are are kind of chronic overthinkers, it's a bit like if I did like 1000 bicep curls a day with heavy weight, I'd have a really big bicep, and if I suddenly wanted to stop that. I could stop it, but I would still have that bicep for ages. It would take a while to atrophy, and so that's what I have to help people with the patience to see that the more you keep doing that, that just shifting the attention away gently, because our mind thinks something is important when we have the physical reaction, so we have the fearful thought, and then we buy into it, and the spotlights on it, and we live in that world, and we make it really vivid, and then we wonder why we're even more fearful because we've suddenly just expanded it, and our mind thinks that must be important because look at the physical reaction, and before we know it, you know, we've increased it rather than decreased it. So it's all about actually coming back to kind of being a bit chilled out, a bit like, okay, I'll deal with it. You know, whatever is a little mantra to you, because you will be okay. You can't not be like whatever happens, you will have to deal with it, because that's life. You know, we're playing a game of life. It's a contact sport. But people across the world, despite you know, you think we talk about it in our nice kind of first world lives.
Kay Tear
You know, like with all of our lovely things that we have, and you've got a lot of people coping and thriving with very little. You know that, and, and so again, you've got to think. We see it all through our own lens, and when we zoom out a bit, and we can just think, you know what, we're okay. You know, do whatever is the next thing that makes sense to you, that you want to do, that's in service to others, is a, a useful thing because it stops us internally thinking, and that's what I think the service to others. Gives us and helps us to feel good. So I think soon as we start shifting, where's our attention? Is it on me internally or is it external? Even that is can be a huge shift for people to stop overthinking.
Kim Meninger
Oh my gosh, so much gold in everything that you just said. Kay, I love it. Oh my gosh, yes, and, and what you just said most recently really resonates with me too because I have I've shared in many different forums my own personal battle with anxiety and overthinking and rumination and the ways in which that kind of I'm trying to use my language carefully here, but there's there's sort of an egocentrism to that, right? This feeling of like I'm the most important person in the world, and everyone's thinking about me right now, and so it's been really helpful to me to think about what's the action I can take and how can I be of service to others. Because, like you just said, as soon as you shift your attention externally, you're no longer in you're feeding the beast, right? You're no longer giving it the oxygen that needs to keep going, and you feel, I think, naturally more confident and, and better when you are thinking of others rather than yourself.
Kay Tear
Yeah, definitely. I I was at you know I said I was at this conference, and there was there was a lady that I'd seen called Judy Seligman, and she is in this the community that I kind of operate in this new understanding, sometimes known as the, the three principles, or people talk about it as the inside out approach to understand our minds. And she has been kind of coaching and helping people and run a very successful business for a long time, but she says that anxiety is a form of self obsession, and she said, and by the way, people hate when I say that to them, you know. And she said, but when you think about that, of course it's just me. Yeah, of course everything's pointed towards me. That must be what everyone's thinking. We're becoming mind readers, aren't we? And I don't want to. I don't want to take away from the fact that it feels real. And again, in the book, I kind of explain the whole kind of process and the inside out understanding because the feel, the experience you have, is real. We're not trying to say that that's made up, but when you start to see how it actually works, then we can see that we we do have the agency to move through that in a different and easier way to have a more peaceful experience, and, and that's why I love this work that I'm doing like at this stage in my life because people say I'm actually better with my kids now. I'm like, well, of course you are, because if you stop buying into the, the things, then it doesn't doesn't transform. You know, I still have moments where I, you know, I might you know get cross with my daughter. You know, she's only three, and she just got pen all over the sofa a couple of days ago. And but then I catch myself, and you know, and that's the thing. You're catching yourself in the moment, so I'm kind of quick to apologize now with things if I do it, and I see in that moment that's going to be so much work. And why did you do that? And you know not to do that. And then I kind of bring myself back, like she's three, like don't worry about it. It's a sofa, and actually the sofa came up okay with a quick wash. It wasn't actually that bad. So it just shows you that in that moment it seems so real, but often when we just prise it apart a little bit, is things are never as bad as we think.
Kim Meninger
Yes, ah, that I think that's a great note to wrap up on. Although I could spend hours talking to you right now, I love the wrapping up on the things are never as bad as you think because I think that that is the story of our lives, right? And I, as it relates to what you were talking about with resilience too, I always say to people, "Hey, you wouldn't be here right now if that weren't true, right? So just kind of that perspective, I think, is really important. I would love to invite you to share where people can learn more about you because I'm sure people listening want to continue this conversation as well. So where can they find you if they want more of you?
Kay Tear
Ah, thank you. Um, well, mainly LinkedIn. Feel free to link in with me or TikTok. I actually do a lot more on TikTok now, which some short videos for both of my books. The books are available on Amazon, so there's overcome imposter syndrome, but also overcome anxious attachment. So it's that same understanding, but it's focused towards relationships and understanding how we are in relationships. And actually, my my next book, I'm happy to say it now because I think it will be ready in one week's time, is overcome your fear of public speaking. So again, in my coaching work, it comes up a lot. But what I've seen is that when people understand this inside-out understanding, that it's always our thinking about the public speaking. You know, we think it's the event that's making us feel a certain way, but of course it isn't. It's the thought of everyone's look. At me and what if I get it wrong and what would this mean for my career and so again I think hopefully that's a really nice one in the series to do that and just lastly for anyone wants to do things like with their team or coaching then my business is businessreimagined.co.uk and feel free to connect with me there.
Kim Meninger
Wonderful. Well, those links will be in the show notes, and thank you so much, Kay. I so appreciate our conversation and the work that you're doing.
Kay Tear
Thank you. No, it's been a blast. Thank you.
