Stop Feeling Like You Have to Prove Yourself
In this episode of The Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about the pressure to prove ourselves and how it can keep us working harder without getting where we want to go. My guest this week is Drew Turner, a leadership coach who helps high-achieving women advocate for themselves and pursue the opportunities they want. Drew shares her journey from managing a retail store at 24 to working in leadership development at Tesla and how a layoff forced her to rethink her relationship with work.
We explore the rules many of us learned growing up about being helpful, staying humble and waiting for someone else to recognize our contributions. Drew shares how those rules showed up in her own career, including giving away credit for her wins and questioning whether she deserved to be in the room. We also discuss what happens when we tie our identity to our jobs and how making space for grief, reflection and joy can help us move forward after an unexpected career change.
We also talk about why being busy can feel like proof of our value and how that pressure makes it harder to set boundaries or prioritize ourselves. Drew shares practical ways to reconnect with what matters to us and make more intentional choices about where we put our time and energy. We explore how self-doubt can affect our relationships with other women at work and what becomes possible when we support each other’s success.
About My Guest
Drew Turner is a Jungian-certified leadership coach who helps high-achieving women in leadership who are exhausted from proving their worth be seen for everything they bring to the table, so they can get the opportunities they've earned. Before starting her coaching business, she spent over a decade in retail leadership and L&D roles, including at Tesla, where she experienced firsthand the exhausting cycle of proving her worth no matter how much she accomplished. She now helps women rebuild self-trust from the inside out for lasting change, not tactics that decay.
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Connect with Drew:
Free 3 Step Reset to Be Seen for Everything You Bring to the Table: www.drewturnercoaching.com/3stepreset
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Drew. It's so great to have you here today. I would love to start by inviting you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Drew Turner
Thanks, Kim. I'm so happy to be here. So I, when I first knew that we were going to be talking a little bit about my history, it was like, oh man, where do I even begin? So I think let's start at the beginning, so I originally actually went to school, thought I wanted to become a physician's assistant, graduated very quickly, determined that is not the plan for me, and restarted in retail at the time. And I worked at Williams Sonoma. Actually, it was just a holiday job, and then I ended up climbing the ranks at William Sonoma and ended up running my own store by the time I was 24, and it showed me a lot when it comes to being young and passionate, and also how unprepared I was for that kind of role, and that actually then pivoted me into doing leadership development with Tesla, and in 2024, I sadly was a part of the big layoff that they did. Sadly, but also fortunately, because it really completely changed everything about my life. It really forced me to look at what do I want to have in this life, what do I want to be in this life, and it really helped pull me away from the corporate life and more so into creating my own business, and so that's my business today, which is called Drew Turner Coaching, and I get to help high-achieving women in leadership roles who feel like they're constantly having to prove themselves and prove they belong in the room, be able to actually get the opportunities that they deserve. Typically, that's going to be through like promotion or raises or a different role altogether, and that's a part of why I'm so passionate about this because I was that woman trying to give an all hands presentation to my team of 100, thinking, "Oh my gosh, like who am I to be doing this? Like I felt like a complete fraud, complete fraud, and that's a part of why I'm so passionate about what I get to do now because I get to help women who were in those or currently in that space be able to really bring to light all of the different elements of themselves so that they can show up as truly themselves in those situations and be able to then also get rewarded for that, because I remember so often in my career I would be the one putting in the most hours, giving the most, and then I would have a colleague get promoted, and it wouldn't be me, and that level of resentment that I would feel, and it bleeded into everything truly. And now being able to focus on helping women navigate that, it really, it just fills my soul. Truly, it just it really fills me up. So I'm so excited to be able to be here and like talk to you about imposter syndrome because it's such a big topic that I do not think is talked about nearly enough.
Kim Meninger
I couldn't agree more, and your story resonates with me so much because that is really my story too. I worked in high tech for many years, struggled with intense imposter syndrome, and I I say very sincerely that I do the work today because I want to be the resource to people that I wish I had back then. And it's interesting when you talk about the need to prove ourselves and the ways in which opportunities often go to other people. You know, I see. I'm curious what you're seeing too. I see ways in which some of that is rooted in the imposter syndrome or the feeling that I'm not good enough, and I just need to keep working harder and harder. And then the other piece to that is almost this guilt or shame about asking for the opportunity. And I I see that all the time with women who feel like it's almost an inappropriate conversation to say I'm ready for the next level, or you know, I want I want to be compensated fairly for the work that I'm doing. So I love to break some of these things apart and really hear how you think about the current challenges facing women and where the opportunities are.
Drew Turner
Yeah, I love that you brought that up. So I'm going to hit on the second one that you talked about first of this like we feel like we have to be, we can't be cocky, right? We can't think that we are entitled to anything. We have to kind of minimize our own wins to be able to be viewed as like acceptable, and that piece specifically, I think, is so ingrained in us because when we are young and when we are kids, that's really when our entire psychological landscape is going to be fully developed. So we're deciphering who we can and cannot be like, essentially, and it's it's the sign of a healthy mind that our minds do that, and there's no shame in. Not like every single human being that walks this earth has that. However, then it becomes limiting when give an example here. When I was younger, there was a specific characteristic that I adapted of okay, I need to be like hyper curious because if I'm really curious and I did something wrong, then I'm less likely to have the other person be like, "Oh, she's at fault, and blame me for it. And so then, as I went through and went into my adulthood and into my career, that followed me. That curiosity serves me to a certain point, right? But it also means that I'm more likely to have someone else give me constructive feedback and actually accept it, rather than saying like, actually, I don't think that's correct. So another example of this is I throughout my career I got received a lot of interesting feedback. When I say interesting, I mean vague and not specific enough for me to actually action, and that is something that honestly just fed into the me not feeling like I was good enough to be in the role. Me feeling like I couldn't really speak up about my wins because I still had opportunities. And I think as women, we try so hard to like be accepted, right? And that's totally it's understandable. It's our sense of survival, but if we are trying to seek that survival so much that we're abandoning ourselves in the process, then like, what's the point, right? And so that's a lot of the individual work that I do with women is getting to the root of that so that they can choose how they want to show up. The other thing that I find really curious too is when you look at there's a lot of different research out there about men and women in the workplace, and I heard about this study that was done that if men, you know, hit 75% of job requirements, or you know, they thought they could do 75% of the job. They'd apply for the job. If women thought they hit 75, they wouldn't apply. They wouldn't even try because they didn't hit every single criteria listed. It's like we take ourselves out of the game before the game has even really started, and I think that goes back to the The first point you mentioned of, like you know, we're showing up in these spaces and feeling like we're not good enough to be there, and if that's already our mindset, then what's going to stand out to us? The things that are reinforcing what we already think that we don't deserve to be there.
Kim Meninger
Yes, yeah, you're absolutely right, and you know, I I I love that you brought up the influence of our childhood as well, because I think there's a way in which there's certainly exceptions to this, but as a society, many of us grew up as girls believing that it wasn't polite to brag, that we should prioritize service to others over advocating for ourselves. That you know we were bossy and we needed to be less direct. And so a lot of those the feedback, as you're describing it, right? Like it was feedback. It wasn't the kind of feedback that we get in the workplace, but it was certainly feedback we internalized, and it shaped how we see what is permissible for behavior and what isn't. And a lot of those rules that we live by have gone unexamined because they just feel true. They don't feel like they're, you know, negotiable, right? And so we just keep following those rules and getting frustrated by the results that they create.
Drew Turner
Yes, yes, and as you were saying that, something that popped into my mind was how when we are younger, women, little girls, are taught to like be quiet, stay there, wait until your name is called, right? And we look at how that shows up in the workplace now. It's the same thing. Like we're wanting to be seen, without wanting to vocalize what we're bringing, because that doesn't feel safe, right? And little boys, on the other hand, are taught to like go toot your own horn, right? Like toot toot the whole way, and that's something that actually has recently been coming up a lot for a few of my clients, which is around like taking ownership for your wins, like not handing it off to. If you get a compliment and you say, "Oh, I couldn't have done it without so and so, you're now immediately deflecting the great job you just did and. Giving it to someone else, or I mean, I even caught myself doing this a couple weeks ago. Like a great opportunity came up for me, and I was like, "Wow, that's amazing! That like this just-I was so lucky. I blamed it on-I gave it all to luck, and it's like, "No, Drew, you actually had something to do with this too. Like, you can celebrate yourself. Let's celebrate yourself, you know. But we're so often going to give that credit away because that's what feels comfortable for us because we've done that since we were kids. So of course it's going to follow us then, you know. And to your point, we don't examine those things, and I think that's a part of why I said at the beginning, like my layoff was quite honestly like a blessing, is because it those big moments like that is what forces you to look at it, and it's unfortunate that we have to have those big moments to happen in order to look at it. But it's something that, like, I'm never gonna go back from. Like, I it completely shifted how I saw my career, how I saw wanting to open my own business one day, how I saw my trajectory on life as a whole, because no longer was I willing to stay where I was at. It's like, okay, I need to change this. This needs to change now because I know what just happened there is not actually a true reflection of me. And it took obviously a lot of time to uncouple those things, but it's those big moments that really forces us to look at it and be like, "Okay, what do I want to change?
Kim Meninger
You're absolutely right, and I I can't tell you how many people I've heard very similar sentiments from where they wouldn't have made the decision to leave, but in hindsight, it was the best thing that ever happened to them. And I know, and I don't say that to dismiss the pain that many people are experiencing right now. That you know, it's a tough economy for the tough job market, and nobody wants something to end on someone else's terms, right? You know, there's an element of pride that's involved in that, but I do think there's also a way of looking at it as a nudge from the universe, and, and I think that that that more often than not is the story that I hear afterwards, which is it it is a blessing. It, it was a blessing. It was a turning point in my life.
Drew Turner
Yeah, completely. And like the, I remember listening to a podcast. I can't remember which one it was. It was a while back, and there was a guest on this podcast. I think it might have been the Brene Brown podcast. I want to say, and this podcast guest said, "You know that you've made it out of that dark moment when you can turn around and say you've taken more from that dark moment than it took from you, and that really stuck with me because that feels so true. Because in moments like that, it feels like the rug's getting pulled out from underneath you, right? And I think what's so common, especially for ambitious women, I'm sure you've had experiences of this too. Is we tie our identity into our jobs, like my job is me, right? Like I'm accomplishing a lot, and I want to be successful, and you know I have a huge vision for what I want my life to look like. And then the minute that that disappears, it's like oh my gosh. Then who am I? And I think that's a part of what a lot of those dark moments can turn us to is like, yeah, like really introspection of like, truly though, who am I without this title? Who am I if I'm not saying I'm Drew and I work a Tesla? You know, like oh my gosh! And there's a level of dauntingness in that, and then there's also a level of freedom, way after that fact. Like it probably took me a year to get to the freedom part of that, of being like, yeah, like who am I? Like I can be anyone I want. I'm not just this Drew that works in this corporate job at Tesla anymore. You know?
Kim Meninger
Can we stick with that for a moment? Because I think there are a lot of people listening who are waiting to get to the freedom part that you're talking about, and I wonder if you have suggestions on how to potentially accelerate that process. Like, how do you, how when you're kind of in the thick of it, still feeling the pain, how do you start to shift into more of the mindset that you're describing.
Drew Turner
Ooh, that's a really good question. So I think there's a couple things, and I think it kind of depends on the history of each individual. I know for me, a lot of my past prior to me going into doing like a lot of personal development work, I I had a really challenging time feeling my feelings and expressing them, not necessarily in an outward way, but like allowing myself to cry and not be allowing myself to not be perfect. Essentially, I have a lot of perfectionistic behaviors. And in that moment, for me, honestly, it was leaning towards what scared me the most, which was feeling my emotions. And I say that because emotions hold so much power. They also hold so much of our what shows up in our bodies, and you know, suppressing emotions causes a whole host of you know diseases and a whole host of issues. But I think depending on the person, like if you as a listener are identifying with like you know, I've I've tried to kind of suppress my emotions and just pretend I'm fine. I would say it's going towards the emotions. I would say if it's usually you want to sit there and overanalyze and try to you know logic your way out of it, doing some type of somatic work, and what I mean by that is, you know, like I have a morning ritual where I meditate for about 10 minutes, and then just like identify, like what am I feeling in my body, and it forces me to get out of my head because I will overanalyze things constantly. I'm I'm smart, I know that, and it it gets me in trouble sometimes, you know. And then, kind of the last thing I would say is moving towards what you remember brings you joy. So something I did during the period of time that I didn't have a job was I spent some time volunteering, and it helped me. Like I went to a outdoor garden and volunteered on like picking vegetables for this garden, and it got me outside, which I knew I needed. It got me in sunlight, which I knew that I needed. I need my vitamin D, and it also got me out of my house, and that helped me break a lot of the overthinking patterns that I tended to have. So whether that's going to volunteer, whether it's literally stepping outside of where you're living and standing in the sun, or going for a three minute walk, or like something to get you physically out of the space that you're in, can help break up a lot of the kind of overwhelming or daunting or maybe more like depressive things that might come up for us of feeling like, oh my god, what am I doing with my life if this just happened? You know. But then I would say honestly, kind of the last thing is it can be really hard to try to connect to joy in those moments, but doing as anything that you can think of that will bring you a little bit of joy, a little bit of like a smile or like anything to help you get out of that mindset will help. The other thing too, I had a therapist at the time that recommended this to me, which was I didn't want to feel like I was being swallowed by my emotions because it just felt so all-encompassing. And one of the things that she said is, you know, Drew, you could carve out time, whether it's once a week, whether it's every other week, whether it's once a day, and literally put time on your calendar to say like this is the period of time where I'm going to grieve, and then sticking to it because if you know that that time is upcoming, then you can spend all the other time doing all the logical things and the job search and the resume and you know, but then during that time stick to it and like let yourself feel it, and that honestly helped. I think that helped me the most, so that I didn't feel like I was just getting swallowed whole by all of these emotions.
Kim Meninger
You know, I love everything that you just said, and I I want to go for a moment to what you're talking about now because I think that's such an important point. There's a way in which we fear emotions. Like there's no such thing as a bad emotion, but we tend to think of sadness, anger, resentment, grief, all of the you know those feelings as negative, and we do worry that if we let ourselves go there, we will never come out, and I think to your point, if we don't let ourselves experience them, that is where the real harm happens because that energy has to go somewhere. It's not going to disappear on its own, and what often happens, I you know I've experienced this myself, is it will come back to haunt us at inconvenient moments, right? And I think, especially for people who are trying to find a new job, who are trying to network, who are trying to put themselves back out into the world, if you don't grieve, your body language will reveal the unfinished business that you're still carrying around with you.
Drew Turner
Ooh, yes, it will. And that reminds me of the book, "The Body Keeps the Score." That is such a good reminder of like our emotions literally gets stored in our body, and it will come out in other ways. I can guarantee that right now, and even too, like I know for so, for me at for sure, I always wanted to try to understand like why I was having the emotion, and something that I think my coach at the time had taught me is to basically do a little bit of an inquiry with it. So trying to understand, okay, where is it showing up? What is it trying to protect me from what does it need from me, and that helps me both engage kind of the logic side of my brain while also still feeling the emotion. And for me, I mean, those types of little kind of quiet meditations or visualizations helped a lot. Be able to ground in the fact that I knew I would be okay. I knew I would be okay, even when I was sobbing. Right, like I knew I was still going to be okay. And it helps free a lot of that energy so that you can get to that freedom. But the more that you kind of deny it or push it away, it's it's gonna be there. It's not gonna go anywhere, and it's gonna come out in ways you don't really want it to. And it's probably gonna take much longer to get to that freedom and like being able to look back and say, "Wow, I'm really glad that this happened, even though it was really challenging. You know.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. And you're making me think about something else too right now because a lot of what we are talking about is so important, but it doesn't feel productive because it's not action oriented in the way that we, you know, sort of prioritize because we feel like we have to. And if we go back to some of your earlier comments around the need to prove ourselves. I think whether we're working or in transition, whatever's going on in our lives, there's a way in which we don't value the reflection, the connection to, you know, the, the deeper thinking that we're talking about here, because it's not a checklist item. It's not something that we can use to say like I've gotten things done today, right?
Drew Turner
Oh yeah. Well, I think first off, I think we need to put this work all on our checklist, and then check it off as we do. I know for me that helps a lot. I will also say too. I think as a society, we're so accustomed to having our productivity being some output, it's something we're putting out there or getting done. Or, and nine times out of 10, I would say it's for other people. Very rarely is ourself on that list, right? Unless it's things like I need to go get a haircut, or you know, like just daily hygiene stuff. Like I need to take a shower, right? Like very rarely are we actually putting ourselves at the forefront of that because we're so focused on everyone else. And I think that there's something to be said about that productivity because while sure, I think it's probably helped a lot of us in our careers. I think there's a bit of a like we don't totally understand that there's a difference between being valued and being busy. And I think that those two things get coupled together quite a bit, and of the proving right? If we are busy, that makes us feel like we have value, right? Whereas someone that's truly valued is using their time to do work that they feel is truly impactful. Someone who feels valuable says what they need and is point blank on their boundaries. And you know, if a really urgent deadline gets dropped on them, it's like, okay, well, these are the three things I have. This is when I can get it to you. It's not let me drop everything and run after this one thing, right? I think probably a lot of this stems from I would guess when we were in school as kids, because there's always something to be doing, right? Whether we're on recess, whether we're in the classroom, there's always something that we're supposed to be doing, and it almost-I've noticed this in myself definitely the last few months of almost being suspicious of when I don't have something actively to do. I'm like, but what should I be doing? What am I missing? Right? When in reality, it's like, oh no, maybe I've just. Such a good job delegating that, like I can conserve my energy for those tasks that I have to do that I know are going to be to make the biggest impact for me or my business, right? So I wonder if we change that, if we focus more on like how does it make us feel to do the thing and prioritize those things when possible, right? I know some work stuff that's not possible. Then I really am curious of whether we'd actually view doing like the slowing down and the doing the reflecting as an essential part of the process because we're taking care of ourselves, and if we're taking care of ourselves, then we're going to be able to show up better for everything else that we do in our life.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think we've made that connection, right? Because I think we can say that intellectually, but when it comes down to it, I do think there's a way in which prioritizing ourselves feels luxurious or selfish or inappropriate in some way because there's somebody else's needs that matters more.
Drew Turner
Yeah, and even that point too of feeling like we put ourselves first, then all of a sudden we're we're selfish, right? And how, I mean, just as as a society, when girls are growing up, the amount of conditioning that goes into that learned belief of essentially like my value is tied to what I'm giving to someone else, basically is what that's saying, right? So if I'm only giving to myself, then where's my value? I don't have any value.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, yeah. Well, you're making me think about school again too, because you know it's interesting. There's a way in which I think girls do better in academic environments for the reasons that you talked about. We're taught to be obedient. We tend to mature faster. It's easier to sit still. But there's a way in which that constant positive reinforcement fuels that sense of I'm doing something that is making other people happy, right? Because when you're in school, you don't think about it as I'm learning for learning's sake, right? Or I'm I'm I'm investing in my own development. You think of it as I'm making my teacher happy, or I'm making my parents happy, or I'm gonna get, you know, this. I'm going to get this grade that's going to be make the college that I want to go to believe that I am worthy. It's all about what other people are going to think of us. It's not about like, oh, I really learned a lot in that class. It was intrinsically motivating to me, and so I think we carry that with us into the workplace too. And it's very different there. Obviously, we don't have the same student-teacher relationship, but sometimes we we treat our managers that way. We try to understand how can I make them happy, how can I be their favorite, and instead of thinking of it as you said, of like, what's the impact I'm trying to make? What's the why here? What's the what is it that I want to do, and what's the most effective way to do that, even if I don't make every single person happy 100 of the time along the way?
Drew Turner
Yeah, and I would say even too, like if we think of like the, the version of me that comes up when I say this is like probably three years old when she's, I was just so unbothered by anyone else. I was just doing me, you know, and that version I have heard a lot about us reflecting on what we thought we wanted to be when we grew up, right? And then going after that, you know, like if I wanted to be, I think at the time I wanted to be a vet, a vet. So like, okay, let's go after it. And as we grow up, these expectations start getting put on us of like, what's realistic and how are we going to please everyone else, right? And at kind of, I mean, especially that age, but I would say any age where we're children, there's this internal battle that starts to come up between being authentic and being attached, because our attachment to our parents is our is our lifeline. It's our survival, right? So our authenticity just kind of starts to go down the drain a little bit, which makes sense because we need our parents to survive. However, to your point, then when we get into corporate and like our manager is considered like our caregiver essentially, right, and trying to please them, like no wonder our own needs go out the window first. Then, right? Because we're there trying to help support them and their vision and what they want, right? And I think something that's so interesting about that is, I've I've heard probably. Over the last six months, a lot about women having women leaders in the workplace, and from my own experiences too, the women that I have had that have led me have actually been harder bosses to have than men, because I think there's a little bit of a little bit of that similar dynamic within all women in the workplace, and this like tit for tat kind of feel of like I had to struggle to get here, so you're gonna have to struggle to get here, you know. And I think that a lot of that honestly goes back to childhood of whether or not they felt like they got the attention that they wanted, whether or not they felt like they belonged. And I think a lot of, I mean, long term women haven't really been in the workforce very, very long, right? When you think about it, in the grand scheme of things, and we are so accustomed to always taking care of everyone else when all our own needs, just like out the window, like we're not going to worry about it because we need to stay safe and we need to make sure our manager likes us. You know, like that's what we're concerned about.
Kim Meninger
It's so true, and I feel like this is a. I always joke that everyone should have to go through therapy before they enter the workplace, because we're carrying around all of our baggage and triggering each other all the time without realizing it, and you know, so much of what you're describing is just the way that the world works. But there are impacts from that. It's a ripple effect to that to us individually and to the people who work with us and for us, and if we don't get our stuff together, everybody loses.
Drew Turner
Truly, because it's it is that ripple effect, right? And I think what's so interesting about that is I'm noticing. I mean, right now there's a lot of generations in the workforce, first of all, and we're all trying to navigate this time a little bit differently, right? Because of the way that we were raised, the, the age in which we grew up. But I think something that's starting to come out more and more is like women climbing up the ranks within corporate environments, right? Helping the women underneath them do the same. Not saying, "Oh, well, I had to go through all this, so you're gonna have to too. Here you go. You know, like it's it's creating this environment where, like my the last manager I had in my last corporate role is a great example of this. Like she, she was fantastic at making sure that I felt like she was in my corner and she had my back. And like, and that was, if I'm being honest, I think that was the first experience I ever had in my entire career where I felt that way, specifically about having a woman manager, because she very much so did not have the mindset of like, you know, you're gonna have to struggle too, because I did, and she was very, she was clear, she was kind, she was, you know, but I think more than anything, like there was not this competition mindset, and I think that that competitive mindset is something that, I mean, it's just a very old mindset, right? Of like, oh, if she's at the top, then I can't be at the top, so that means I need to tear her down, right, or vice versa. When in reality, like, there's room for all of us at the top, really. Like, we just need to focus on what we want to be known for and our own legacy, and like not be so worried about what anyone else is doing, but I see where it comes from, and like it's understandable that that's there because that's not the environment we exist within right now.
Kim Meninger
Drew Turner
Yeah, and we can all get there like going hand in hand, right? Like it doesn't have to be this tearing everyone else down thing, you know, and like that even reminds me of in school. There was, you know, when a boy would like us, he would be really mean to us, right? Okay, but then when you talk about the girls, like holy cow, like trying to become friends with the girls when I was a teenager, like that was rough. That was rough, right? And I think it's a similar mindset. It's a competition mindset of trying to get the boys' attention, and it's like, oh man, I mean, I'm really, really glad I'm not in high school anymore. And also, it's that just translates into the workplace now of having almost the exact same thing occur.
Kim Meninger
You're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. Oof! I am glad I'm not explaining to you.
Drew Turner
Right? What a time!
Kim Meninger
I know. Oh my goodness, Drew. This has been so much fun, and I feel like I could keep going and going. But in the interest of time, I want to make sure that others who are listening know where to find you too, if they want to learn more from you? Connect? Where can people connect with you?
Drew Turner
Yeah, I would love for people to connect with me on LinkedIn. I think we're going to include all of that in the show notes, right? So it'll be linked for them. And then I would also love to hear from you. So if you feel like any part of this conversation resonated, or you're dealing with, you know, female managers that are kind of tearing you down, or that feel like you know they're kind of out to get you, or you feel like a complete fraud in your role, or kind of anything that we've talked about. I would love if you went onto my website and just requested to chat. I do 330 minute, just kind of exploratory calls to be able to chat with women that are navigating some of these things, and really, my goal in those is to be able to have you leave with at least one action item in which you feel like you can start to kind of take some of your life back and not have imposter syndrome kind of rule your life, so yeah, I would love that.
Kim Meninger
Wonderful, like you said, those links will be in the show notes for sure. And thank you so much for being here.
Drew Turner
Thanks, Kim. I had such a fun time. This was great.
